Lehigh Stainless Steel Quicklink safe?

Hi, I recently bought a Lehigh Stainless Steel Quicklink from Home depot. It says safe for 3500 lb workload (I think construction ratings are different than climbing ratings in that it means it is meant to be used moving a load like that around continuously). It is extremely heavy duty, but on the back of the box I noticed it says not to use for life critical applications.

Is there actually a chance stainless steel this thick could fail on weaker loads, or this required to be stated because they have not done the formal testing required to meet certification requirements even though it would most definitely pass?

It looks much more solid than the quicklinks usually found at the top of sport routes, but at the same time, I don't want to play dice with my life. Does anyone have insight into how safe this type of product is?

My intended purpose was to use it as the sole protection for a top rope instead of two biners (since it should be over twice as strong as two biners and won't wear out nearly as fast or get dinged up). If I can't be confident enough to use it as sole protection, I might as well not use it at all since two biners would be easier.

I buy 'em but my sole useage is for quick rap-rings and/or bailing. Max working load way higher than I'm generating. Around your usage, no comment as I have locking biners for that.

Why reinvent the wheel? Just use 2 biners. It's faster and arguably safer (each biner is strong enough individually anyway, so 2 gives you an extra layer of redundancy).

I use quicklinks all the time for leaving as rap anchors on trad and alpine routes like squiddo, but I would never bother using them for TR. Not from a safety standpoint, but just convenience and speed.

While overall the may have a safe working load of 3500lbs, very few units get tested and the failure rate is much more lenient than climbing gear. Having one in a batch that fails at say 1000lbs is totally acceptable to the company producing them. Your call if it is worth saving $20 or so.

2 biners ... doesnt save you too much money to use qlinks ... and its more flexible later on

i do use links for bails ...

just buy 2 stainless steel lockers for TRing, they won't put the black on your rope.

From a quality standpoint that I ASSUME they are using:

A product that is "life critical" requires tighter control of a process than a product that is "non life critical". They can save time and money by not controlling the process as tightly. So, when the main application is not climbing (non life critical), there is no reason to have a tightly controlled and costly process.

The gist to take away is that there is a possibility that a few pieces that come out may squeeze under their specs because of loose controls, but because it is marketed as non life critical, it really doesn't matter. I've rappelled off of hundreds of those "hardware store" quicklinks and it doesn't bother me one bit. I would NOT use one as the only piece between me and the ground though.

Not too hard to give them a call and ask how they rate their quicklinks... lehighgroup.com/

FWIW I had no problem getting through to a live person there when I called a couple years back. She had to go digging for the answer to my question, but eventually found it.

Why on earth do you need two locking steel biners for toproping? Have you ever actually worn out an aluminum biner doing that? It's certainly not an issue of strength...

Thanks Eddie, I will give them a call.

Also I wouldn't say I have worn out aluminum biners, but the ones I use for top roping are extremely dinged and scratched up after only 1 year (and that was with protecting with a towel in some of the bad cases, slabs). Whether or not those need to be retired is a whole other question :)

I may end up using it for a rappel, but probably wouldn't use it as a bail biner, since it is sooo heavy and I don't want to carry it with me on lead...

Jim A wrote:Why on earth do you need two locking steel biners for toproping? Have you ever actually worn out an aluminum biner doing that? It's certainly not an issue of strength...

yes... two of them actually in only a couple months. Picked up a couple steel auto lockers and they still look brand new.

20 kN wrote: Although these are safe from a breaking strength standpoint, you cannot expect the same lifespan from them as you could expect from a quicklink sold by Fixe.

I'm curious: why?

Are they not the same steel, ie, 303/304 v 316?

On their website, the rapides they sell aren't listed as "marine grade".

Looking for an inexpensive source on 5/16" stainless rapides. Please let me know!

Thanks.

Jim A wrote: Have you ever actually worn out an aluminum biner doing that?

Yes.

It seems like there are climbing specific links that are getting cheaper and cheaper if you're worried about the hardware store links.

http://www.camp-usa.com/products/carabiners/oval-quick-link-934.asp

The stainless are more expensive but I've been seeing them on sale for pretty cheap to the point where I've been getting them for just a little more than what I was paying for hardware store non-stainless.

20 kN wrote: Yes they are safe. I have tested a number of them. The noobs on here that are saying one in xx will fail at 1,000 lbs. are making crap up as they go.

That, or they're properly applying statistical methods to wildly scattered test results. I've got plenty to say on the subject since I've broken dozens and dozens of them (and quite a few Petzl ones), but I don't care to rehash it since a search will turn it up easy enough.

Anyway, while generally WLL is a fraction of the MBS this may or may not be the case with quicklinks from Lehigh. Only way to find out is to call, and I'll tell you right now that the tech support guy won't know how they figure their ratings and will have to go digging. As I mentioned above, I called them with a similar question a while back.

Aric Datesman wrote: That, or they're properly applying statistical methods to wildly scattered test results. I've got plenty to say on the subject since I've broken dozens and dozens of them (and quite a few Petzl ones), but I don't care to rehash it since a search will turn it up easy enough. Anyway, while generally WLL is a fraction of the MBS this may or may not be the case with quicklinks from Lehigh. Only way to find out is to call, and I'll tell you right now that the tech support guy won't know how they figure their ratings and will have to go digging. As I mentioned above, I called them with a similar question a while back.

+1

I started to respond to 20KN but couldn't respond without violating Guideline #1....

Brian in SLC wrote: I'm curious: why? Are they not the same steel, ie, 303/304 v 316? On their website, the rapides they sell aren't listed as "marine grade". Looking for an inexpensive source on 5/16" stainless rapides. Please let me know! Thanks.

I dont know, it may have to do something with the passivation process they use, or the actual chemical compensation of the steel itself, maybe both, I am not sure. But 316 and 304 classifications do not site specific competition requirements, but rather a range. So 316 SS can contain between 10 and 14% nickle and 2-3% molybdenum, for example.

First off there are lots of "stainless steel" all made for various reasons; stainless does not mean stronger. Second if you got it home depot and one tested at 43kn does not mean another will. I would rather trust a single big ally biner (forged) that that one. To that point I would leave a one for others as opposed to cheaping it out for others. Not so much for biners but there have been lots of fasteners (this mostly comes from racing) that have been graded that were pot metal alloyed from the dirt in the back forty that went to market and killed the piggy.

Let's see. Stainless maybe; who knows what alloy. Not forged. A single point of failure... To Metallurgy, QA, FEA, let's just lay it out... good engineering. Once again for gods sake FEA for the love of god FEA.

When you're dumb you got to be tough. And. Stupid should be painful.

Funny how much effort people put in to saving 6 bucks. I pissed more than that into the toilet in the last two hours.

Btw. The links are fine, but, never trust your life to just one of them.

Rigging
What Greg said.
The disclaimer is a legalese attempt to avoid liability since they're being sold to morons at home depot

Eddie Brown wrote: +1 I started to respond to 20KN but couldn't respond without violating Guideline #1....

Yeah, not so easy to do when dealing with 20kn.