dirtbag road trip/ moving away form the mountainless frozen hell know as MN.

So i'm sick of Minnesota and need to make a change! I really want to work in the climbing industry witch is virtually nonexistent in MN. so to help further this goal at the beginning of Feb. i'm off to J tree to get my AMGA single pitch climbing guide certification(hopflly the first step on the long road to the IMFGA master guide)) and after that im taking an open ended road trip. I want to explore, meet some cool people, do ALOT of climbing and hopefully find a community I would like to live and work in. Im going to be in J Tree threw Mar. 6. then i'm going to Denver of a week or two to climb with some friends who are going to be there for spring brake. after that I'm thinking maybe Red rocks, Moab, maybe something in AZ and when spring rolls around spending the summer in the Vally. and maybe settling somewhere in the front range if i don't find a place that feels like home along the way. so... i was wondering if the MP community had any insight into good places to check out, cheap or free camping, easy to find climbing partners, good weather and maybe a chance to network with some people in the industry. i'm tying to spend about a month in each spot so save on gas and travel expenses. do you have any input on how much I should be expecting to spend a day once i get to a destination and am camping? i'm hoping to keep it around $5-10 a day does that sound reasonable? some tricks to save money on the road? and maybe some inspiring stories to reassure me than quiting my job, selling everything I own and dropping out of community collage(at least temporarily i'm only 22)in search of happiness is a good idea.

Thanks,
Michael Jacques

a few words of advice...

don't make a definite plan... be nice, have fun, and see where the climbing life takes you

$5-$10 a day will get you almost nowhere... it can be done, but be ready to do a lot of dumpster diving... think about it... $300 a month? livin' cheap for sure

dropping out of college is not recommended... maybe stick around and take a couple english classes

even still, climbing full time is an wondrous lifestyle, from it you will gain many long lasting relationships and self-understanding

Now is the best time be a bum, the coming economic collapse will favor those with less to loose. Don't be scared, I just quit my job too.

that trip will be rad. i lived in minneapolis and did multiple road trips, quitting my job for the winter but always on good terms, so i could return if needed in the spring.

i suggest working part time wherever you end up. that gives you a rest day activity and the ability to live on more than $10 a day. many places like Hueco will allow you to camp for free and waive a guide fee if you are willing to do some minimal work around the campground.

you can find work in Yosemite but only full time, which will not work well for wall climbing. Squamish is the best bet in the summer to climb and work odd jobs.

good luck, it will be worth it.

-joel Denver, CO

I did basically the same thing when I was 26. That was 1989 and I was sick of living in north central Iowa after growing up in eastern SD. At least in Sioux Falls I could get to Palisades State Park even for an afternoon of climbing. Once I moved to Forest City for a better paying job all there was to do was go to the YMCA there was buildering at Pilot Knob but it was technically illegal.

After a road trip to the Needles in Custer State park and hearing about a new climbing school opening up. I returned to work to find out my bosses had bypassed myself and another coworker and hired a new supervisor for our department. I said fuck it literally and literally headed for the hills.

One month latter I was the first employee of Sylvan Rocks Climbing School. It's still in business sylvanrocks.com/ though under new ownership. Funny I hadn't looked at his site in over a year that's my Pins and Needles T-shirt. Well not mine personally but my idea for the putting the line and pic on a shirt. Should have copyrighted it I would be a hundredair by now.

Take Joel's advice and think about picking a place to spend time and get a part time job.

It is possible to live dirt cheep but it's tough.

I would avoid dept if at all possible having a part time job will still allow you to get a lot of climbing in.

Back in 89 seems like a lifetime ago. The original owner of Sylvan Rocks and I attended the first ever AMGA guides course. One week in the Valley. One of the first things I heard from the oldest guide there was if you want to be a guide you'll need to find a job. And he didn't mean guiding. While there are many who manage to make a living as a guide it won't likely happen overnight. My boss at SR was working 2 jobs in Rapid City one to pay her bills the other to pay me to sit in the shop and try to drum up business. I lived in a car so $5 an hour covered my expenses.

S Denny says don't drop out of college. That old time guide recommended getting a degree in Outdoor Ed. If that's where you want your life to take you consider moving to a place that offers a chance at that. Prescott, AZ (pronounced Preskit I am told) might work out for you Prescott Collage has an outdoor ed dept not sure but I think that is their main thing, though I also think it may be pricey. There is also a community collage in town and climbing at Granite Basin though there is a seasonal closure for nesting falcons.

Guiding is great work if it doesn't burn you out. I lasted 4 full seasons at SR finally lost it half way through the 5th. My then GF and now wife and I had already started spending our winters in Tucson, AZ working temp jobs and climbing at Cochise all winter as well as making month long road trips, Jtree and Red Rocks on the way back and forth. We continued to do that for one more year and then settled in Tucson for several years.

In 1997 my still GF took a job in Idaho and I discovered white water we also got married that year but it was just a formality and more of a side note.

By 2000 I was fully hooked on white water kayaking and went to Kernville, CA to paddle. The wife was working north of Santa Cruz and though I never planned to work as a guide there I ended up at mtnriver.com/index.htm That's me in the blue helmet mtnriver.com/climbing.htm It was a good gig pretty long season guide school in March then the main river season after that the ropes course and mountain biking kept me busy enough through mid October when he does his bike fest.

But as usual and I am sure it's just me I got burned out. Back then he only had a class III run (they run IV & V now) and a lot of the clientele were whiny not really outdoorsy types and it got frustrating.

Great climbing up the the Sequoia Needles though and lots of mountain biking. Sometimes I think about going back.

Well it seems you caught me in a very typy mood this morning sorry about the long winded post hope some of it helps.

I had been thinking about a post here asking how many MPers had given up a stable easy life for the dream of being a full time climber. The Chicago guys post about leaving a good job got me thinking about how much I have given up in life for the freedom to do as I please when I please like this. bikepacking.net/forum/index…

I'll shut up now.

Good luck in life.

I would like to thank every one for the sincerity they put in to there responses.

s denny- I understand how important education is, if not for the sake of a career but, for the betterment of ones self. My hope is that if I can achieve some of the things more fundamental to the human experience, I will have the drive to approach school as it should be done.

evan s- "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose"

Joel- I think getting a part time job is a grate idea. as much as I would like to climb every day, I know I will need some days to recover, why not make some money! And the hueco suggestion is grate. I never even thought about Squamish, i will have to check in to it... could be fun.

Tim- Do you feel that you have made trade offs for the freedom you have enjoyed? If so, do you feel that it was worth it? Talking to someone young and idealistic would you have any advice for them?

Michael Jacques

In life we make decisions every day some that make no difference latter on and some that change the course of our entire lives.

I gave up a great paying job in IA working in the video industry. The place was a subsidiary of Winnebago Inds. I could have had their retirement plan which was a pretty sweet deal. Then I went to work for the same outfit when the opened a shop in Memphis, TN again I quit to go to the Hills and climb.

Had I stayed either time I could have earned a lot more money with said money who knows what I could have done. On the other hand I met my wife that summer after I left TN. We have been together for nearly 20 years now and that's worth a lot. I have a climbing, biking, boating friend who is also an ER Doc. He has a nice house, van, boats you name it if he wants it he can afford it. And he has the time to make use of all of those toys. But he is divorced and recently broke up with his GF of several years. The other day he said he was jealous that my wife and I were nearing 20 years together.

I doubt any one would recommend taking advice from an unemployed adventure addict. But I will say that if you consider your home to be Hell it's time to get out. JT in March is awesome. There's a place out there somewhere where you can find what you are looking for. Even if you don't know what you are looking for.

If you have the chance learn to raft guide rivers are great fun and it's any easy way to make $ while moving around.

I have no regrets with the choices I have made in life. Better to be broke and happy IMO. I am sure a lot of people would say I am crazy but I know that being stuck in IA or TN would have driven me crazy no matter how much money I made.

Thank you, Tim.

Your welcome, best of luck to you.

Mike: I'm late to this confab, but I'll throw in a thought or two. There have been some good comments on this thread, but you need to take heed of the low-income nature of guiding, at least in the USA. I don't know about Europe. When I was 18 and totally addicted to the climbing life, I seriously considered becoming a guide, but ultimately I didn't want to make a job out of something I loved. And then I couldn't make a decent living at it anyway!

The trick in this life is to develop a skill that people are willing to pay for, and folks aren't willing to pay much for a climbing guide. Sad but true. If your goal is to climb, then I'd be more creative with your thinking. Some make a living writing and taking pictures about climbing, but this is almost as sketchy as a long run out above a shaky RP. My advice: Find a community you like with a good community college AND university. Establish residency so the fees won't be extreme and start working towards a four year degree in nursing or, if you have the drive, a nurse practitioner or physical therapy degree (master's level work). This will be a long, hard road. So what? When it's over, you'll have a truly marketable skill, and you can climb a lot because it is now common to be able to get 3 month contract work--at excellent pay levels. I've known several people who do this. Work 3, 6, 9 months, then blast for the road. When you want to settle down, you'll have no problem. Think LONG term, where you want to be in 5, 10, 15 years. Road trip for a while but have a plan and work that sucker.

Enjoy the journey and climb safely.

BAd

Evan S wrote:Now is the best time be a bum, the coming economic collapse will favor those with less to loose.

Coming, what the hell are you talking about coming, we are in the middle of it and have been for years. Fuel prices and layoffs have been at record high for (many) years. I am somewhat convinced that this is as good as it gets. The America as we once knew it is no more, this is the new country we live in and thats how its going to be. If you want to escape it you will have to leave the continent.

Anyway spending $10 a day is near impossible. First off that campground you are staying at charges $15 a day, so your already over budget. And with fuel getting close to $5 a gallon in some places, $30 a day is a bit more appropriate and thats still poor living.

BAd wrote: Establish residency so the fees won't be extreme and start working towards a four year degree in nursing or,

RN is not what it was two years ago. My girlfriend is an RN and right around the time she got her first RN job the field started dropping like a rock. In 2009 RN was the number one job to have. Now its not even in the top 10. There are quite a lot of RNs who cannot get a job right now. I climbed with someone who was an RN the other day. He flew out here for a job interview. He said they were 40 interviewees for one position. Thats got to suck, I dont even know if I would show up for something like that, unless your a master of your trade, your obviously wasting your time. If you really want something marketable, be a CRNA. You wont even need a resume then.

You are right its good to get a skill thats in demand. But doing so takes time and the economy is so ridiculously unstable right now its anyone's guess as to whats marketable. Two years ago RN was the ticket, you were nearly guarantee a job the day after you graduate, that sure is not the truth today. This year computer systems support is close to the top, but by the time you get that bachelors in IT, it probably wont even be in the top 10. When I was in high school being a welder was a valuable trade, now its on the top 10 worst jobs to have list.

If you want a job that supports climbing, its simple. Find a job that offers shift work (in 12 hour increments) or seasonal/ weekly work that gives you a lot of time off at once. In the end, good climber jobs are ones that offer the employee a lot of time off and reasonable pay.

"He said they were 40 interviewees for one position"

Really? That's still better than the 650 aplicants for a recent REI sales employee position that opened up here in Fort Collins...

That's what I heard anyway...

Learned to climb at Taylors Falls. Moved to Rapid City for a year then moved east with my folks. Got a Assoc. degree at a community college in upstate NY. Climbed at the Gunks for a month each summer. Headed west as soon as I graduated. Met some locals at Sylvan Lake and they invited me to Devils Tower. Stayed the whole summer with them climbing after they finished day of park service work. Lived in the house right next to the visitor center. I did my share of house work and payed my share for food. Met my wife of 25 years as she was a seasonal ranger for the second year at the tower. She lived in Tucson in the winter so that is where I headed. Been here ever since. I have done a variety of jobs from guiding to ditch digging. Have a company that wholesales funky mailbox flags to gift shops all over the country. Look at mailboxes on your drive and if you see something other than the standard red flag it is likely we made and sold it. Have invented climbing products, written guidebooks, have been a CATV contractor, am currently a remodeling contractor along with the mailbox flag business. I have always looked for work that allows me to work hard then take time off in blocks.

The dirtbag thing is okay for a while but you will want work of some kind so you can afford some things other than beans and peanut butter.

If you really want to be a guide go for it. You can learn a lot and it will get you in some work doors. Be willing to work hard at whatever you do and you will always have work of some kind. Chase whatever dream you have. You may not find the climbing industry to be what you think, want or need. Give it a shot, if it doesn't work out pick another path and go for it.

Good luck.

20 kN wrote: RN is not what it was two years ago. My girlfriend is an RN and right around the time she got her first RN job the field started dropping like a rock. In 2009 RN was the number one job to have. Now its not even in the top 10. There are quite a lot of RNs who cannot get a job right now. I climbed with someone who was an RN the other day. He flew out here for a job interview. He said they were 40 interviewees for one position. Thats got to suck, I dont even know if I would show up for something like that, unless your a master of your trade, your obviously wasting your time. If you really want something marketable, be a CRNA. You wont even need a resume then. You are right its good to get a skill thats in demand. But doing so takes time and the economy is so ridiculously unstable right now its anyone's guess as to whats marketable. Two years ago RN was the ticket, you were nearly guarantee a job the day after you graduate, that sure is not the truth today. This year computer systems support is close to the top, but by the time you get that bachelors in IT, it probably wont even be in the top 10. When I was in high school being a welder was a valuable trade, now its on the top 10 worst jobs to have list. If you want a job that supports climbing, its simple. Find a job that offers shift work (in 12 hour increments) or seasonal/ weekly work that gives you a lot of time off at once. In the end, good climber jobs are ones that offer the employee a lot of time off and reasonable pay.

I have to disagree here although it is very location dependent. money.usnews.com/money/care…

My fiance is an RN (she has her MSN). It took her a month after getting her license to find a job, and when she got the offer she wanted she got two more in the same week. I believe she only applied to five hospitals. She also got a job in the ER so she isn't stuck on a floor dealing with old people. She will make over 60k her first year as an RN 1 with minimal overtime. I believe next year she qualifies as RN II and will receive a nice raise. Her end goal is to become a CRNA but it's a lot harder than you make it sound. Most colleges require two years experience in an ICU and the selection process is more competitive than medical school. CRNA's in Chicago make close to 200k.

Nursing is a great way to go and be able to travel. I'm contemplating quitting my job in the fire service and going back to school full time for nursing just so I can have the freedom she has.

Yeah, the viability of nursing probably has a lot to do with location. Here in Kalifornia it seems very high in demand. Re. physical therapy, a friends wife moved out here with him from Ohio and landed a job immediately. They keep working her to accept a full time gig, but she's holding onto the 3 month contracts in order to travel. Also, ironically, the pay is higher.

Oh, this is in Bakersfield, btw.

BAd