Gym closures for comps

KateS wrote:Well Zeke, I took an evening before responding to this information. I see that today you deleted some of your more scathing comments from your "rant", but I still feel that it all needs a response. I also feel this is a great topic for discussion, (Look at all the people who have responded.). Paul stated that it would have been great if you, Zeke, would have talked to RockSport staff. I highly encourage all those of you who commented on Mountain Project to inform your gym of these grievances before, and not after the fact. This allows for change and discussion, not just staff/management responding to problems. So here are a couple facts stemming from Zeke's thread: ~USAC REQUIRES a gym to close for a week. There were over 100 volunteers that stepped up to make it happen the days leading up to the competition, and the day of the Regional Competition. Our gym says,"Thank you!!!" by granting those people with a free membership for a month. Maybe your gym has a program like that. That is how we repay our clients for allowing our gym a couple days out of the year that are donated to the kids!! ~Zeke, Reno had some of the warmest weather in history (LITERALLY) in the last week, so climbing 'during the winter season' is a little different when it's 60 degrees Fahrenheit. As someone who participates in the Tahoe Restoration Project you should know of some good outdoor winter climbing. I personally would have rather climbed at the Buttes last week then work indoors for 14-16 hours a day for the last week :) Who wouldn't?!?! ~I am surprised, Zeke, you were surprised that we put on these comps! We are one of the oldest gyms in the country that participated in the youth climbing programs for over 15 years. On that same note, WE ARE HONORED to be one of 15 gyms chosen in the country for the step right before USAC National Youth Championships! ~As 'Blue Eisele' stated there is ALWAYS High Altitude. Enjoy there facility, people, and prices! But be careful; they close for an ENTIRE week for unsactioned comp. ~As SKI said, "We know that you guys are short-handed yadayada and it takes time to build quality routes but your boss has to dedicate more resources into getting what little space you guys have plastered with new routes ASAP. We (the people paying your wage) depend on it!!!" ...It's also up to the boss to charge what other gyms are charging. Due to the economy I would rather keep the doors open to those who need an outlet during 'these times', then create an exclusionary environment that would cripple this tight knit climbing community. One last thing, Zeke, you deleted the part about the shotty routes: We are one of the few gyms in the country that have a Level II certified route setter on staff. We also REQUIRE any setter to take classes AND pass a test before they pick up an impactor! For the rest of you, ask your gym what their standard is! All my setters are burnt out after ABS and SCS but it's only sport climbers that complain during BOTH SEASONS,(...a running joke amongst the staff, so thanks for proving the point this season!). I want to take a moment in closing to state again that I am glad to have this discussion! Obviously there is a point missing between managers/owners of gyms and their clients, but who's responsible for that? Sincerely, Kate Sabo - Operations Manager of RockSport (Married to Dustin Sabo, the Nationally Certified Level II Setter and whose 9 year old daughter Gwen Sabo qualified to goto Nationals during that Regional Competition that was referenced!)

For posterity.

KateS wrote: ~Zeke, Reno had some of the warmest weather in history (LITERALLY) in the last week, so climbing 'during the winter season' is a little different when it's 60 degrees Fahrenheit. As someone who participates in the Tahoe Restoration Project you should know of some good outdoor winter climbing. I personally would have rather climbed at the Buttes last week then work indoors for 14-16 hours a day for the last week :) Who wouldn't?!?!

There's a smiley face in there so I can't be too mean, but I don't think you can really argue that point. If someone's paying to climb inside, you can't justify your closing by saying that it's better to climb outside. Then again, I wouldn't complain about the gym closure in the first place... :)

KateS wrote: We are one of the few gyms in the country that have a Level II certified route setter on staff.

I have to be honest, this part was really, really funny to me!

Will S wrote:Closing for comps sucks my sack. I don't pay >$50/mo to show up to train and not be able to train. At a minimum, if I show up and it's closed for comp setting I want 25% of my monthly fee refunded. Closely related...setting during the open hours (period...whether comp routes or regular new stuff) also blows...at a minimum get that shit done during the day so when the after-work crowd shows up you don't have half a wall closed off while Sparky McSprayalot sets new routes/problems...tell Sparky to show up to work at 9am instead of 4pm and serve you clientele. More gym BS: Slacklines in the middle of the gym. Yeah, GREAT idea. Now I have to wait for Johnny Toecheese to fall off the f$%&ing thing before I can cross the gym, and get to duck under the thing to do so...and as an addded bonus, when it's up, it occludes 10+ boulderprobs...hope that's not where you want to run 4x4s or have a problem you're working.

THAT IS AWESOME!

Gonna go ahead and say that Kate could have handled that better.

yeah, i'm pretty much with WillS on this one. A lot of us don't have the ability to come in during off hours, due to working the typical 9 to 5.

This seems to be a major oversight by Kate during her rant. Sure, the weather may be nice, but a lot of us leave for work in the dark and come home in the dark during the winter. pretty depressing when the weather is nice during the week, and then turns to shit for the weekend, over and over and over....

the only thing that keeps us from OD'ing on ice cream, or slitting our wrists with scratched up DVD's of Sopranos Season 1 is getting into the gym and desperately trying not to get fat.

Joe Virtanen wrote:Gonna go ahead and say that Kate could have handled that better.

Is that a level II certified opinion?

i just want to know, what is on a level II test? i've never seen that as a category on jeopardy, or in trivial pursuit. how would one go about studying for it?

From the USAC website:

usacsetting.net/application…

Kid Icarus wrote: Is that a level II certified opinion?

Actually, Kid, funny you should mention. I'm one of the few level II certified opinion formers in the country.

KateS wrote:There were over 100 volunteers that stepped up to make it happen the days leading up to the competition, and the day of the Regional Competition. Our gym says,"Thank you!!!" by granting those people with a free membership for a month

KateS wrote:There were over 100 volunteers that stepped up to make it happen the days leading up to the competition, and the day of the Regional Competition. Our gym says,"Thank you!!!" by granting those people with a free membership for a month.... Sincerely, Kate Sabo - Operations Manager of RockSport (Married to Dustin Sabo, the Nationally Certified Level II Setter and whose 9 year old daughter Gwen Sabo qualified to goto Nationals during that Regional Competition that was referenced!)

So daddy does the route setting for Gwen's comp, and mommy pays all the judges and officials? That sounds fair.

I want to know what is taught at the level 2 routesetting clinic.

I want to be a Nationally Certified Level II Setter. Is there a special school to learn how to sandwich plywood between T-nuts and chunks of plastic? Will I be able to acheive a Level III after a certain amount of time?

P LaDouche wrote:I want to be a Nationally Certified Level II Setter. Is there a special school to learn how to sandwich plywood between T-nuts and chunks of plastic? Will I be able to acheive a Level III after a certain amount of time?

Looks like you can make it all the way to Level 4 Chief Setter

Ok, so it has been made abundantly clear to me that all of you that are talking about setting and gym management haven't done either. On the other hand My wife and I have been in this industry for a very long time. Just to give you a little history on myself I have been setting for the past 15 years and have a level 2 regional certification for setting (if you don't know what that means you might want to educate yourself before you sound like a moron). I have been the Head Setter at Rocksport for the past 4 years. I have also set for Rocknasium, The Front(the old one) in Utah, and a few others were I was just helping them put up some routes and boulder problems. I have set for numerous comps and I'm sure that I have a good idea as to what is involved in hosting them. Ever since Kate has been managing the gym sales have gone up, we have more members than ever before, every comp has gotten rave reviews, and we have acquired more holds and bouldering pads. Not to mention that the overall quality of the gym has improved immensely. I feel like we (rocksport staff) have tried to make everybody happy but we all know that is impossible and on that note I'm not going to try. If your angry that we closed for a comp or that you think that we set too slow or whatever else you may think I just want you to know we are doing are best and we will continue to do what we do. So to all those jackass's with your lazy comments your words fall on def ears. Maybe next time you can man up and join the climbing community instead of throw rocks from afar. In fact I would prefer that everyone that made negative comments about the staff to come in for a refund and we hope to never see you in the gym again, good riddance to bad rubbish.

Dustin Sabo wrote:Ok, so it has been made abundantly clear to me that all of you that are talking about setting and gym management haven't done either. On the other hand My wife and I have been in this industry for a very long time. Just to give you a little history on myself I have been setting for the past 15 years and have a level 2 regional certification for setting (if you don't know what that means you might want to educate yourself before you sound like a moron). I have been the Head Setter at Rocksport for the past 4 years. I have also set for Rocknasium, The Front(the old one) in Utah, and a few others were I was just helping them put up some routes and boulder problems. I have set for numerous comps and I'm sure that I have a good idea as to what is involved in hosting them. Ever since Kate has been managing the gym sales have gone up, we have more members than ever before, every comp has gotten rave reviews, and we have acquired more holds and bouldering pads. Not to mention that the overall quality of the gym has improved immensely. I feel like we (rocksport staff) have tried to make everybody happy but we all know that is impossible and on that note I'm not going to try. If your angry that we closed for a comp or that you think that we set too slow or whatever else you may think I just want you to know we are doing are best and we will continue to do what we do. So to all those jackass's with your lazy comments your words fall on def ears. Maybe next time you can man up and join the climbing community instead of throw rocks from afar. In fact I would prefer that everyone that made negative comments about the staff to come in for a refund and we hope to never see you in the gym again, good riddance to bad rubbish.

As an independent, outside observer, I'd just like to recommend that you drop this and call it a night. You gain not a thing from this.

Huh, this seems like a bunch of unfounded whining. So... you showed up to the gym, they were closed, and your first recourse is to badmouth an entire gym? Good show, guys.

It's nice that there is such a large, vocal audience to agree with itself when complaining about something as trivial as your gym being closed for a few days. Do you cry this much when you're inconvenienced by roadwork?

So this gym decides to host a regional comp for kids, and you can't let off a little steam after work? Man, your life just got really crappy, really fast. This kind of thing is normal for smaller gyms, with limited setting staff. Your options are to either not have a comp, and cut a great experience out of the climbing life of these kids, or to have to suffer through a few days without your fingers on some holds. Get over yourselves. Pools shut down for maintenance, weight gyms close for upkeep, tennis centers get shut down for tournaments. If you can't entertain yourself for a few days without climbing, then I feel pretty sorry for you.

To Dustin and Kate, I'm glad you guys were willing to put in the insane amount of work that comes with a competition, to give the region's kids a place to have a great experience.

So comps pretty much suck for everyone involved, aside from the lil' pukes participatin'?

KateS wrote: We are one of the few gyms in the country that have a Level II certified route setter on staff. We also REQUIRE any setter to take classes AND pass a test before they pick up an impactor! For the rest of you, ask your gym what their standard is! All my setters are burnt out after ABS and SCS )

So you're saying that of the 100 or so route setters that are level II certified or higher, they all work in only a few gyms in the country. I admit after looking through the list several of those on it are not currently active, but...

The gym I work at in ABQ has a Level 4 and a Level 3 (what ever that really means) setter on staff and we train all incoming setters. We have great setters on staff that could care less about getting the certifications because unless you really want to set at a national level they are not necessary. The cert. teaches you about setting routes and problems for competitions not setting stuff that is fun to climb.

As far as putting the gym back together, we put in 3-4 days of setting the week (as opposed to the usual 2 days a week) after the competitions that we do and still get complaints but at least we are trying and not letting the staff get away with saying well, I'm tired so I'm not going to do my job.

Level 2, level 3, level 4, Numbers are a bunch of B.S! You can set routes for years and that still won't make you a "great" "good" whatever you want to call it, route setter. The gym where I work, we have no certified route setters but we have a total of 25 years experience. We still make "weird" or "unpopular" routes it is part of the game.

As to comment on the thread title, we do not close our gym down. We give ourselves 1-2 weeks to strip and reset the routes, while also warning possible gym competitors that they cannot climb these routes. My gym is no ordinary gym, so it takes us a while to set routes, thus the reason for 1-2 weeks.

Will S wrote:Closing for comps sucks my sack. I don't pay >$50/mo to show up to train and not be able to train. At a minimum, if I show up and it's closed for comp setting I want 25% of my monthly fee refunded. Closely related...setting during the open hours (period...whether comp routes or regular new stuff) also blows...at a minimum get that shit done during the day so when the after-work crowd shows up you don't have half a wall closed off while Sparky McSprayalot sets new routes/problems...tell Sparky to show up to work at 9am instead of 4pm and serve you clientele. More gym BS: Slacklines in the middle of the gym. Yeah, GREAT idea. Now I have to wait for Johnny Toecheese to fall off the f$%&ing thing before I can cross the gym, and get to duck under the thing to do so...and as an addded bonus, when it's up, it occludes 10+ boulderprobs...hope that's not where you want to run 4x4s or have a problem you're working.

Thank you!! Pretty much sums it up....