Torn Webbing on a Tri-cam during a fall
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PTZ wrote:In my experience the Tricam is not a favorable piece. Only if you have 2 hands to place it and two hands to get it out of the crack. Fine for anchors but in my opinion, they don't do better than a Cam or BD stopper. If it takes me that long to place and I have to use both hands,obviously I am on such easy terrain that I should be running it out or soloing that pitch. I threw mine away years ago. Trying to free them from their placements can take valuable time on a route. They can walk in the crack also, all pieces can walk. If you are a beginner don't listen to your copy of "Freedom of the hills" and stay away from Tricams and Hexes. I cringe at the crag when I hear those hexes making that clanking sound coming down the trail. Hearing that sound means it is time to be somewhere else. Great for anchors but in lead situations where it matters - They are not my vote for gear to have.First of all, there are places where hexes outperform cams, and other places/conditions where hexes are safe and cams are outright dangerous. Think icy/wet cracks, or climbing on limestone. On columnar andesite and welded tuff, hexes are often superior due to crack geometry. How about in the alpine where they're light, and cheap (if you have to bail from one). Tricams can be the only thing that works (try sticking a cam in a pocket). On certain types of sandstone, tricams can be the ONLY bomber pro. They're GREAT pieces in the Gunks considering they're small, light, and bomber in horizontals. I don't usually carry tricams, but if I'm going to the Gunks, or am climbing local sandstone, you better believe they're going on my rack. And, maybe those beginners SHOULD be learning the art of passive gear placement instead of learning to plug cams without thinking. |
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Randy Riha wrote:And, maybe those beginners SHOULD be learning the art of passive gear placement instead of learning to plug cams without thinking.I agree. There's a learning curve associated with all pro, including tricams and hexes. My observation has been that most people who dismiss these haven't actually used them enough to learn how they work. The comment above about needing two hands to place a tricam (!) was a dead giveaway. Back on topic, I'll be really interested in learning the results of the testing on this failed tricam's webbing. Though I've made many, many tricam placements, I've never fallen on one. JL |
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When I see someone with a real cam-centric placement bias I think noob no matter how long they've been climbing. |
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I would like to see the tricam head retrieved and have a look at the pin. I have always wondered about the rolled metal they use, if one of the ends of the sheet were left sticking out during manufacture it would be like a knife on sling... built in. |
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saxfiend wrote: I agree. There's a learning curve associated with all pro, including tricams and hexes. My observation has been that most people who dismiss these haven't actually used them enough to learn how they work. The comment above about needing two hands to place a tricam (!) was a dead giveaway. Back on topic, I'll be really interested in learning the results of the testing on this failed tricam's webbing. Though I've made many, many tricam placements, I've never fallen on one. JLI learned how to lead by placing hexes and nuts. I don't use them anymore and it wasn't till I bought my own rack that I starting buying tri cams. Being from NY I learned how to lead at the Gunks and up in N. Conway. Living in CO for the last 10 years and tri cams make up most of my rack with cams. (And yes I even own a link cam!) I think tri cams work just as great out here as they do back east. I've taken a small fall on my pink cam and it held. But looking at that photo makes me realize I need to get most of mine reslung as they are old!!! That being said they can be a bitch for the second to get out! |
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Harold Lampasso wrote:That being said they can be a bitch for the second to get out!I believe "Shawangunks" is the Dutch word for "Land of the Welded Tricam." (though I've never had any trouble cleaning one) JL |
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PTZ wrote:In my experience the Tricam is not a favorable piece. Only if you have 2 hands to place it and two hands to get it out of the crack. Fine for anchors but in my opinion, they don't do better than a Cam or BD stopper. If it takes me that long to place and I have to use both hands,obviously I am on such easy terrain that I should be running it out or soloing that pitch. I threw mine away years ago. Trying to free them from their placements can take valuable time on a route. They can walk in the crack also, all pieces can walk. If you are a beginner don't listen to your copy of "Freedom of the hills" and stay away from Tricams and Hexes. I cringe at the crag when I hear those hexes making that clanking sound coming down the trail. Hearing that sound means it is time to be somewhere else. Great for anchors but in lead situations where it matters - They are not my vote for gear to have.I learned to lead not that long ago and use tri-cams and hexes frequently. I don't know why everyone thinks hexes and tri-cams are only useful in active (camming) mode, because in passive mode they both can work exceptionally well (many times fitting better than nuts would). Yes in a parallel sided crack I'm gonna reach for my cams. However, I run into many pea pod shaped cracks that take nuts okay and hexes beautifully. If you can't place your passive pro or even a tri-cam in active mode with one hand then you should leave your cams on the ground once in a while and learn some dexterity. It is not difficult to place tri-cams one handed and in many cases I have an easier time placing a tri-cam then a SLCD because of the angles or constrictions of a crack. Why limit yourself to the heaviest, most expensive, most complex pro when there are plenty of options out there. I use all my limbs climbing why not use all my pro options as well? |
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saxfiend wrote: I believe "Shawangunks" is the Dutch word for "Land of the Welded Tricam." (though I've never had any trouble cleaning one) JLThat's funny and true!!! I had a pink one get stuck that my second couldn't get out!! |
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Rick Blair wrote:I have always wondered about the rolled metal they use, if one of the ends of the sheet were left sticking out during manufacture it would be like a knife on sling... built in.It's nothing to special, as it's simply an off the shelf coiled roll pin from SPIROL used in the normal manner. |
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Harold Lampasso wrote: That's funny and true!!! I had a pink one get stuck that my second couldn't get out!!I got that one out the next day and have it on my rack now. (OK, maybe not yours, but I have plenty of others'.) |
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saxfiend wrote: I believe "Shawangunks" is the Dutch word for "Land of the Welded Tricam." (though I've never had any trouble cleaning one) JLnut tool to the stinger usually does the trick. There is apparently one left on Gelsa from this weekend.. was too dark to go retrieve it once we heard though. booo |
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Jake D. wrote: nut tool to the stinger usually does the trick.I have found the opposite, I hit it with nut tool behind the rails, try to rock/slide them in the same direction the tricam went in. Do you use the tool to push or pull the point? |
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PTZ wrote:In my experience the Tricam is not a favorable piece. Only if you have 2 hands to place it and two hands to get it out of the crack. Fine for anchors but in my opinion, they don't do better than a Cam or BD stopper. If it takes me that long to place and I have to use both hands,obviously I am on such easy terrain that I should be running it out or soloing that pitch. I threw mine away years ago. Trying to free them from their placements can take valuable time on a route. They can walk in the crack also, all pieces can walk. If you are a beginner don't listen to your copy of "Freedom of the hills" and stay away from Tricams and Hexes. I cringe at the crag when I hear those hexes making that clanking sound coming down the trail. Hearing that sound means it is time to be somewhere else. Great for anchors but in lead situations where it matters - They are not my vote for gear to have.Wah?! I must say I am perplexed by this statement. |
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Mike Morin wrote: Wah?! I must say I am perplexed by this statement.... not to mention being left to wonder what bearing it has upon the OP. ??? |
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Thanks for sharing. The lesson I take from this is about trusting used nylon gear. I always get the slings replaced on used cams (which is why I think most used cams are overpriced once that cost is factored in), and would never buy used slings or tricams. The few bucks saved is just not worth it. |
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Ok everyone, |
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Hey Esha, |
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I am very sure there were no traces of sulfuric acid on the sling. It was my initial suspicion that H2SO4 was the culprit, so I of course checked for that. If it was sulfuric then it had been completely removed by the time I got a hold of the sling. |
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Rick Blair wrote: I have found the opposite, I hit it with nut tool behind the rails, try to rock/slide them in the same direction the tricam went in. Do you use the tool to push or pull the point?It depends on the placement obviously.. but sting up in a horizontal i tap the sting in a push direction like unseating a nut placement. that usually unsticks it from the rock and then it's easy to get out. i'm sure i've had to push, pull, pry them in all directions at some point depending on how it is stuck. |
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esha wrote:I am very sure there were no traces of sulfuric acid on the sling.Not questioning you on that, merely passing on a good article for reference since it included extreme closeup pics of the nylon both in exposed and unexposed condition. |