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Moving to New England, Help Please

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GnarthVader · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 105

I hate to be so vague, but any advice on the following would be greatly appreciated. So I am moving to South Royalton, Vermont to finish school and I will only be there from January ‘til May. I want to make the most of my time in New England, so I need some help. I need to buy some skis, and since I’ll be on a student’s budget, cheap is good. I have no idea what to buy or where to get it. Do I want an alpine set up, or an AT setup? (Keep in mind I know nothing about skis; please be patient with me.) If I get an AT set up, are there plenty of places to ski outside of the (costly) resorts? I also would love to do some ice climbing. Where can I find some tools and crampons at a reasonable price, preferably used? (And no, I do not plan to go out ice climbing by myself or with someone else who is equally inexperienced. It is all about being safe, having fun, and doing something I usually do not have an opportunity to do.) I have ropes and a rack, but I don’t think I’ll be doing much climbing until late March. My guess is there will be too much snow to climb. Please correct me if I am wrong. It only snows about once a year in my hometown (close to Horse Pens 40), so I am probably ill prepared for a New England winter. However, I have purchased a Wild Things Belay Parka, and some Kayland Hyper Traction boots to try and keep myself warm. So I guess I am asking for 1. Ski suggestions 2. Ice tool and crampon suggestions and 3. Whatever you think I need to know suggestions. Thanks in advance.

wargowsky · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 0

Tim - congrats on the move. you'll love the ice climbing and skiing once you get used to the cold.

1)Skis - i'm not the most qualified person to help here, but i can at least get you started, especially if you're wanting to do it cheap. my AT setup cost $150 total. Galaticsnowsports(dot)com has skis REALLY cheap. I prefer short skis (around 150cm) because they're lighter and easier to carry. Consider getting Silvretta bindings that will snap onto your mountaineering boots. You can find them used online. Hopefully someone else can give you some better advice. I only use skis on long approaches for ice climbs.

2)Tools/crampons - since you're on a college budget, buy them used. the gear forum on this site is a great resource. borrowing/renting gear is usually the best way to start. ice gear is a pretty big investment (having said that if you want a pair of BD reactors, i've got a pair for sale)

3)NEice(dot)com might be a useful website for you. check out the mount washington/white mountains area while you're up there. It’s only a couple hours from where you'll be. the NE is a great place to be in the winter. have fun man!

Tparis · · Pottersville,New York · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 270

check gear-x in burlington

Devin Krevetski · · Northfield, VT · Joined May 2008 · Points: 140
Tim Davis wrote:I hate to be so vague, but any advice on the following would be greatly appreciated. So I am moving to South Royalton, Vermont to finish school and I will only be there from January ‘til May. I want to make the most of my time in New England, so I need some help. I need to buy some skis, and since I’ll be on a student’s budget, cheap is good. I have no idea what to buy or where to get it. Do I want an alpine set up, or an AT setup? (Keep in mind I know nothing about skis; please be patient with me.) If I get an AT set up, are there plenty of places to ski outside of the (costly) resorts? I also would love to do some ice climbing. Where can I find some tools and crampons at a reasonable price, preferably used? (And no, I do not plan to go out ice climbing by myself or with someone else who is equally inexperienced. It is all about being safe, having fun, and doing something I usually do not have an opportunity to do.) I have ropes and a rack, but I don’t think I’ll be doing much climbing until late March. My guess is there will be too much snow to climb. Please correct me if I am wrong. It only snows about once a year in my hometown (close to Horse Pens 40), so I am probably ill prepared for a New England winter. However, I have purchased a Wild Things Belay Parka, and some Kayland Hyper Traction boots to try and keep myself warm. So I guess I am asking for 1. Ski suggestions 2. Ice tool and crampon suggestions and 3. Whatever you think I need to know suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Have you ever done any skiing?

If you are really interested in new England backcountry skiing, you will be best served by a 75mm backcountry/XCD waxless set up. I know its not a sexy/extreme as AT skis, but rarely do backcountry runs around here entail a skin up followed by a solid downhill run, there are usually some rollers/flat spots, and being able to kick and glide will help your enjoyment immensely. There are a few backcountry ski-trails up here, but you are going to be doing alot of tree skiing, unless you want to take trips up to the whites, in which case your gonna need a beacon and shovels and probes and the knowledge to use them.

It all depends on how much money you want to spend, your current skill level, how much free time you will have, and what you want to spend you time doing.

Are you ever going to be using this equipment again?

I think people manage to boulder/climb at rumney through the winter, but I think you have to pick you south faces and get used to being cold.

5 months is not alot of time to make such an investment in equipment, especially if you will be spending ALOT of time studying.

I'm sure you'll get plenty of info on ice gear.
Jason Antin · · Golden, CO · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,375

Tim,
Psyched you are joining us for a New England winter! However I will echo what others have said previously…

This is a huge gear investment - how much do you plan on getting out? Maybe renting gear is a better option for you if you are only looking to get out a few times.

What is you skill level in these areas, as that will certainly affect your ability to find partners and determine how much money you spend on your overall experience. ( i.e. do you need to hire a guide service or bribe a willing climber to show you the ropes for a hot meal and a few adult beverages)

I am not much of a skier, but I snowboard up in the White Mountains a few times a year in addition to a few trips to resorts in NH/VT. As DevKrev said before - alpine sports in the ravines require at the minimal, winter backcountry skills (Avy skills, rescue, snow travel, etc) and in many cases, proper knowledge of how to use a shovel, beacon and probe. If you are a strong skier, Tuckerman's Ravine on Mt. Washington is a highly sought out place between March and June.

Click here for more information on Tuckerman's Ravine

I can help you on the ice climbing side of things, but I am not sure what you are looking to accomplish. Are you looking for a top-roping session at a local crag or do you have aspirations of some longer multi-pitch routes?

As for gear needed; you specified that you recently purchased a new puffy and some boots. Can I assume that you have all the other pieces of clothing and technical outerwear needed for a safe and comfortable winter in the New England mountains?

You can research what gear you need and what is the best stuff on the market, but here are some basics to get you thinking and researching on your own.

Basic gear needed for ice:
These are just my opinions, but the following choices have served me well so far!
Tools - get the BD Reactors from Wargowsky if he offers you a fair price. I have a pair and love them as an all-around ice-tool.
Crampons - Get semi-rigid technical ice climbing 'poons (w/ clips - looks like the Kayland boots you bought have a toe welt and bail).
GOOD GLOVES - I use Kinco Work gloves with Sno-Seal. They are amazing and cheap.
More Good gloves: Gloves get wet, you get the screaming barfies and never ice climb again.

youtu.be/DDGf-LF3jh4

A Good Pack - again, do some research, but if you plan on hitting the mountains as hard as you say, you'll need one that carries skis and tools and all the other goodies. Don't get one that's too big because you will be climbing and skiing with it on!

Helmet - You will need a helmet for ice. You will rarely see ice climbers without one here in NE. You will eventually get a chunk of ice to blast you in the melon.
youtube.com/watch?v=dAWZJ39…

Get in shape (if you are not already) - for both skiing and ice climbing the easier the approach for you, the stronger you will ski and climb, the less of a hazard you will be to any person who decides to take you out.

youtube.com/watch?v=a8oEqCP…

Some last words: You can find gear cheap if you look hard enough and are patient.

You don't need top of the line stuff to have fun for a few months!

Again - there is a lot of research you can do on the specifics, but I think it's great you are going to try and make the best of your time here.

Good luck,

Jason

TheBirdman Friedman · · Eldorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 65

A fellow swan, welcome to SoRo.

Skis: I have no idea, I snowboard so I won't talk about things I don't know about.

Tools: the VLS outdoors club has ice tools and crampons for rent. You can check them out through the VLS library for day use.

What I think you should know: Usually, when someone comes to the Northeast, it is from the West for work and generally, an unhappy prospect. However, coming from the South, you should be psyched. The best part about the Northeast, it doesn't have the world's best anything (except maple syrup) but it has pretty good everything. You can bike, hike, ski, climb, ice climb, boulder, whatever you want all while embracing all 4 lovely seasons.

GnarthVader · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 105

@ wargowsky - Thanks for the heads up on NEice.com. I'll be using that site to supplement my studying procastination efforts.

@ devkrev - Nope. I am a complete skiing newbie, and I will not have enough time to learn avy skills. I also do not study as much as many law students, and I am looking to get out as much as possible. I will check out the XCD setup. Are those considered XC skis? (Again, I'm a clueless noob when it comes to skiing).
As far as using the equipment again. I plan to, even if it is only a few trips a year.

@ AntinJ - I plan to get out every weekend, and structure my class schedule for maximum free time, i.e. no Friday classes (fingers are crossed). I only need to take 12 more hours to graduate. I will be more of the briber (hot meal and beers), and my ice climbing and skiing skill level is complete beginner. I have experience cragging around the South. I have also taken a couple of trips to CO to do some 4th class peaks, and a glacier mountaineering trip to the Cascades.
As far as ice aspirations, I would be happy to top rope, but if possible, following longer routes and/or learning to lead a bit would be awesome. I really just want to do as much as I can.
In addition to the puffy and boots I have Patagonia wool 3 layers, softshell pants and jacket, hardshell pants and jacket, midweight synthetic fill jacket and fleece layers. I also have a BD Half Dome helmet and BD Speed 40 pack, as well as mountaineering axe and strap on crampons. I guess I am in decent shape. I ran a 50 min. 10k last week, and I am training for my second 25k trail race. I am certainly no Ueli Steck.

Funny that you posted the Steck video, I watched him climb yesterday on a video posted on a blog that I read. He is an animal.

@ Lafferty I was confused on the "Swan" comment until I searched the VLS website with the hunch that the swan may be our mascot. Evidently it is. I am excited to be one of "The Fighting Swans". Thanks for the heads up on the rental program. If I don't find a really good deal on tools, I'll probably just rent. I think you are spot on with the whole moving from the South thing. We have some good cragging, but no winter sports. NE seems to have a great variety of destinations and activities in a very small area. I am definitely psyched.

To all: Thanks for all of the suggestions and advice.

Devin Krevetski · · Northfield, VT · Joined May 2008 · Points: 140
Tim Davis wrote:@ wargowsky - Thanks for the heads up on NEice.com. I'll be using that site to supplement my studying procastination efforts. @ devkrev - Nope. I am a complete skiing newbie, and I will not have enough time to learn avy skills. I also do not study as much as many law students, and I am looking to get out as much as possible. I will check out the XCD setup. Are those considered XC skis? (Again, I'm a clueless noob when it comes to skiing). As far as using the equipment again. I plan to, even if it is only a few trips a year. @ AntinJ - I plan to get out every weekend, and structure my class schedule for maximum free time, i.e. no Friday classes (fingers are crossed). I only need to take 12 more hours to graduate. I will be more of the briber (hot meal and beers), and my ice climbing and skiing skill level is complete beginner. I have experience cragging around the South. I have also taken a couple of trips to CO to do some 4th class peaks, and a glacier mountaineering trip to the Cascades. As far as ice aspirations, I would be happy to top rope, but if possible, following longer routes and/or learning to lead a bit would be awesome. I really just want to do as much as I can. In addition to the puffy and boots I have Patagonia wool 3 layers, softshell pants and jacket, hardshell pants and jacket, midweight synthetic fill jacket and fleece layers. I also have a BD Half Dome helmet and BD Speed 40 pack, as well as mountaineering axe and strap on crampons. I guess I am in decent shape. I ran a 50 min. 10k last week, and I am training for my second 25k trail race. I am certainly no Ueli Steck. Funny that you posted the Steck video, I watched him climb yesterday on a video posted on a blog that I read. He is an animal. @ Lafferty I was confused on the "Swan" comment until I searched the VLS website with the hunch that the swan may be our mascot. Evidently it is. I am excited to be one of "The Fighting Swans". Thanks for the heads up on the rental program. If I don't find a really good deal on tools, I'll probably just rent. I think you are spot on with the whole moving from the South thing. We have some good cragging, but no winter sports. NE seems to have a great variety of destinations and activities in a very small area. I am definitely psyched. To all: Thanks for all of the suggestions and advice.
If you have never skied before, you should probably focus your efforts on ice climbing.
Jason Antin · · Golden, CO · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,375
Tim Davis wrote: @ AntinJ - I plan to get out every weekend, and structure my class schedule for maximum free time, i.e. no Friday classes (fingers are crossed). I only need to take 12 more hours to graduate. I will be more of the briber (hot meal and beers), and my ice climbing and skiing skill level is complete beginner. I have experience cragging around the South. I have also taken a couple of trips to CO to do some 4th class peaks, and a glacier mountaineering trip to the Cascades. As far as ice aspirations, I would be happy to top rope, but if possible, following longer routes and/or learning to lead a bit would be awesome. I really just want to do as much as I can. In addition to the puffy and boots I have Patagonia wool 3 layers, softshell pants and jacket, hardshell pants and jacket, midweight synthetic fill jacket and fleece layers. I also have a BD Half Dome helmet and BD Speed 40 pack, as well as mountaineering axe and strap on crampons. I guess I am in decent shape. I ran a 50 min. 10k last week, and I am training for my second 25k trail race. I am certainly no Ueli Steck. Funny that you posted the Steck video, I watched him climb yesterday on a video posted on a blog that I read. He is an animal.
As long as your 'poons are semi-rigid or rigid, you will be able to climb ice. They may not be the best performers out there, but you will still have a good time and learn the basics.

I used these for a little while before upgrading to vertical front points:

Grivel G12

They worked just fine for when you are getting the hang of things. Just make sure the straps are really snug.
Nick Votto · · CO, CT, IT · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 320

Hey Tim, Congrats on the move, Vermont's amazing. Get ready for some coldness though.....there is tons of backcountry skiing in VT and you can tour everywhere, of course there's also the resorts which cost some cash, VT Law School probably has a great deal on one or more of the mountains up there though. At UVM I'd pay $199 for Jay Peak, Bolton, and Mad River seasons pass, ridiculously cheap. If you're interested in a telemark setup I was actually just getting ready to post an ad for one on here. I could probably do $250 on it for boots, skis, bindings, and skins, all in pretty good shape, good starter setup. Otherwise head up to Outdoor Gear Exchange in Burlington when you get up there. About 45 mins to 1hr north you'll find ridiculous amounts of ice climbing and backcountry skiing. Unfortunately the snow often holds in the woods up there until May, but it depends on the year. TONS of rock to climb if it doesn't. Let me know if you need any info.
-Nick

GnarthVader · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 105

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Grivel X Monster tools? I am curious, because the design seems to be far different from the other options out there.

Devin Krevetski · · Northfield, VT · Joined May 2008 · Points: 140
Tim Davis wrote:Does anyone have any thoughts on the Grivel X Monster tools? I am curious, because the design seems to be far different from the other options out there.
I've never climbed with them.

But, those don't have T-Rated shafts, so you can't...um...build deadman anchors with them, so they are pretty much worthless.

I'm not serious.
Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118
Tim Davis wrote:Does anyone have any thoughts on the Grivel X Monster tools? I am curious, because the design seems to be far different from the other options out there.
It was one of the first leashless tools. Great at high level ice climbing and dry tooling. Not particularly adept at alpine type climbing though.

It's a very good tool, but has a somewhat specific use. I certainly wouldn't recommend it as your only set of tools. It would be more of a specific-use spare pair.

You would be much better served by a more versatily tool such as BD Vipers, Grivel Matrix Tech, or Petzl Quarks. Both the BD and Petzl tools were recently updated - you can find the older versions now for dirt cheap if you look hard enough. I've seen them sell with spare picks for under $250ish for the set.
Past User · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 1,069

For ice tools choose BD cobras or Petzl nomics period. If you wanna ski, get dynafits, if you just wanna approach, get silvarettas. If you got the Dough, get skis and ice gear, as often their ideal days are inverses of each other. Learn avalanche skills, it will save your life skiing and climbing...read Bruce Trempers book. P's...I got a brand new pair of dynafits ill let go of for a hot deal.

Graham Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 0

I dunno, that's a bit extreme bheller - Tim, I'd definitely check out what gearx has to offer - you can usually find some pretty awesome deals in their consignment section. As JonH pointed out, many of the "classic" tools have recently undergone updates - BD cobra, viper, Petzl quark, the whole grivel series - foe a beginner, just about any tool will do. I've seen BD Black Prophets for <$100/pair. Great tools and will certainly serve you well for a couple seasons. GearX also usually has some pretty sweet deals on skis too. You certainly don't need the latest and greatest to have a blast.

As far as places to go - go to Smuggler's Notch - you can kick and glide you way to the base of some amazing routes - of all abilities - and then cruise on home. Or you can walk to the base of the routes. If you're coming from the stowe side (have a look at a map, you'll see what I'm talking about) stop at Pie in the Sky Pizza. If you're coming from the Jeffersonville side, stop at Angeline's Pizza and the bakery in... I can't remember the town. But it's the good-looking bakery on the road, just before you make a right turn. Maybe somebody else here can tell you what town it's in.

VT is awesome.

TheBirdman Friedman · · Eldorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 65

The bakery is in Jeffersonville and it's called the Cupboard, attached to a gas station. Contrary to what most people will tell you, Smuggler's Notch is the second most epic place in VT, right behind that bakery.

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264

I'm with bheller, get Nomics or Cobras, don't waste your money on outdated tools. Second best would be Vipers or Quarks. You maybe able to rent/demo tools from Sunrise Adventure Sports in Jeffersonville. I would call them up to see if they have any last year rentals for sale. They're also helpful with beta and conditions report during the season, plus their Smugglers guide is better for the Notch than the NE Ice climbing guide.

Graham Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 0

No no, there's another bakery - it's in Fairfax (I just found it on Google Maps) not attached to a gas station, on the ground floor of a little red-ish building (takes up the whole ground floor), just before you turn right and pass a white church/gas station on your right hand side as your heading to smuggs from montreal/points north. It's right next to the dot that google marks fairfax with - on the left side of the intersection. There are usually some cute girls baking away there too. Sometimes they have live music in the ridiculously small eating area.

If you can't find either bakery - get yourself a whoopie pie at a gas station. maybe you're already familier with them - I've only ever seen them in VT and upstate NY.

Chris Duca · · Dixfield, ME · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 2,330

Jana's Deli on the corner of rt. 108 and rt. 15 in Jeffersonville has the choice selection of baked goods and wraps. Sunrise Adventures has moved up the Mountain Road (rt. 108) a bit from their old location. They now share a space with a ski shop (can't remember the name), but's on the left hand side right past "No School" snowboard shop. Additionally, the Outdoor Gear Exchange in Burlington will have all the local beta you'll need.

GnarthVader · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 105

Thanks for all of the info. I can't wait to check out the local bakeries. I am also interested in checking out Vermont's great microbrew scene.

I wanted to see how you all felt about the Grivel Matrix light. Anyone have any experience with/opinions on these tools? I am interested in them becuase they seem really versatile. When used with the "slider" they can be used leashless.

Jason Antin · · Golden, CO · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,375

Tim you better hurry up and get here! There was frost on my windshield this morning, which means the Ice Season is almost over!

Sidenote: @Dolgio

Were you part of the climbing duo at the Gunks this weekend climbing "Something Intersting"?

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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