Fallen Climber on Bastille Crack 8/21/2010

Jeff Fiedler wrote:Sorry if this is thread drift, but I think relevant to avoiding a fall on this climb. What to people think about the claim above: [While this is partially true, it is also of note that a nut is a much better choice than a cam in an expanding flake due to the fact that the friction between the rock an the nut helps to limit the expanding action. In a cam the only limiting friction is between the cam lobes and the axel, which is virtually non existent.] Seems to me that with a cam at least you have a hope that the cam will expand with the expanding flake, and stay in. Whereas a nut might conceivably catch higher up the wedge of the nut, but you have much less room for error. My hunch is a cam would be more forgiving? Either way, seems like flakes are sketchy pro when a groundfall is the consequence.

I think the point he was trying to make was somewhat valid but not for the reasons he claims. To put it simply, a cam depends critically on friction between the lobes and the rock. Also, a cam converts downward force into outward force to create this friction. So, in general, cams exert more outward force than nuts.

One example: if you have a perfect taper for a nut you could lube it up with vaseline and it won't come out unless you brake the rock. But, if you ever lube up the lobes of a cam, you're facked. Cams critically depends on friction. Nuts benefit from friction, but don't need it when well chocked.

On the Bastille "flake" if you fall on a cam and the flake expands, the cam must expand at the same rate while maintaining friction resulting from the outward force. But, the flake is expanding because of the outward force. If the flake expansion is not restricted, the cam will not hold.

Bottom line, if a flake seems at all suspect of expanding, a nut may be a better placement because it may exert less outward force on the flake.

Btw, when I climb the BC, I always place two cams under the flake because they seem to fit better than any nut. But, I would never fall on them intentionally because of the expanding flake possibility. Then, I reach across and make sure I have at least one, if not two pieces in the crack before I step across.

Hey to all of you asking about me, Donald, the guy who fell from the Bastille Crack a few weeks ago. First, thanks so much for your concern, prayers and interest, second, i feel so blessed to be alive and breathing as it could have ended up so much worse, it is hard to describe a near death experience, third to the emergency crew at El Dorado is the best. I think they were there with in 3-5 minutes,outstanding work from those three or four guys.
I have climbed the Bastille about 6 times, and had already climbed Works Up just before my fall. But this was the first time leading it. I would suggest 2 or 3 pieces of gear before the move as the hands are a little desperate and the feet aren't really there, but that is just me now. My brother was my belayer, he has been working with JHMG for over 8 years now and has given me the confidence you need for trad. I am lucky to have seen such amazing climbing by just watching him. He was there when i needed him most and because he was there i don't think i freaked out like i might of.Thanks Darren, love you bro, and thanks to all who have been asking about me, means so much.

If you would like any more info about this incident, you can e-mail me at dwb08@mail.com. Thanks again

Thanks for the update Donald. Hope you're going to be alright, and I hope you fully recover and get back on the rock.