BD First Shot

Anybody use one? Just discovered it and think it to be a pretty amazing contraption, complete with cord puller and mini saw. Haven't threaded a V in years, but seems like the thing to have if one climbs a lot of ice.
If you do have one, what do you think of it?

Saw one this weekend and asked for it for Christmas...looked pretty fricken cool to me!

They are sweet I don't have one but, I have got to make a V-thread with one and its perfect every time.

So how does this work?

It works by expanding/contracting based on prescribed measurements of 16cm 19cm and 22cm - So it's a template for each length screw to form the precise angle/depth needed for the V thread.

So basically - it removes any/all guesswork from making the V...

Yep. Looks cool and good.

BD could sell Mr. Hanky if they just put their logo on it...it's pathetically easy to make a v-thread and a FREE piece of coat hanger works wonders as a cord puller. Added bonus if you drop it... it's was free.

Beagle wrote:...it's pathetically easy to make a v-thread and a FREE piece of coat hanger works wonders as a cord puller.

Not for everyone.

Especially at the top of some multi pitch route, in a storm, can't see any anchors, tired, cold...then havin' something that will give a much better chance of success makes a bunch of sense.

I've not used one (I, uhh, seem to be able to make a v-thread with just ice screws) but played with one in the shop. Neat piece of gear. I wouldn't turn one down.

If you've ever tried to make a v-thread and "missed", or produced a hole that was dangerously, thin, then, this rig might be the cat's meow.

Havin' a hook and saw integrated into is a great idear too. Especially if you need to sacrifice a bit of climbing rope...

Cheers.

I think this is a creative idea but a waste of money. It is not that hard to make a V-thread even in crapy tired conditions. BD is really doing a great job of making worthess stuff that they will sell the hell out of because it says BD. I am waiting for BD to come out with an electric ice screw that screws itself in. Don't laugh they will figure it out.

Doug Nidever and a client of his invented this jig. I like the jig since I can never make threads without leaving the first screw in, and having the jig would mean carrying one less long screw.

I used to scoff at the coffee-grinder handles on screws as being pointless over-engineering until I started using them, now even the then state-of-the-art charlet-moser turbine seems dumb.

mattb19 wrote:I am waiting for BD to come out with an electric ice screw that screws itself in. Don't laugh they will figure it out.

lol~ fyi it should be solar-powered

kirra wrote: lol~ fyi it should be solar-powered

Hey there's an idea. Maybe they could sew them onto some of their gloves. Although that would probably fall apart like all my BD gloves.

mattb19 wrote:that would probably fall apart like all my BD gloves.

Matt - Dealing with BD Warranty Dept. right now on a pair of 1st Gen Punishers that have literally come apart at the seams after only 30 days of use - I will let you know how it goes...

As for the 1st Shot - I kinda think of it like training wheels for those of us who aren't fantastic at V threads...Once we learn with the training wheels on - we can take them off and not worry -

It's a fast/safe way to construct a V thread and for 25 bucks I'll buy safety...

How long will it be before newbs rely on this device? Then we will read somewhere that a team spent the night on an ice climb because they dropped this device and therefore could not complete their descent.

As for the electric ice screw, I built one a few years ago. Gotta see where that video went...hmmm. A 13 cm BD screw is drilled to the hilt in 6.4 seconds, using one hand.

Tits McGee wrote: Matt - Dealing with BD Warranty Dept. right now on a pair of 1st Gen Punishers that have literally come apart at the seams after only 30 days of use - I will let you know how it goes...

I have had so many BD gloves and they have all come apart on the seams. I tried to warranty some of them with no luck. Good luck to you.

1) Wow, interesting digression. Anyone ice-climbed sans-tools, with just wool gloves?

2) What if it was by Metolius, Splitter, or CCH... would opinions of the first shot differ?

I've used the "First Shot" a lot this year, though only once for actual bailing purposes. It's a great tool I often show my clients/guests when demonstrating how to construct V-threads. It's a template that adjusts for 22cm-19-16cm length screws and is designed to eliminate all guess-work when building these ice anchors.

I personally think it's a great thing to have in your quiver of resources; it's a template, yes, but also a hook and serrated knife all-in-one. Its a little bulky, certainly bulkier than other V-thread tools, but is relatively light and its versatility outweighs its size, IMO. When it's dark or getting dark, it's howling wind, pouring spindrift down your jacket, your hands are freezing, you're miles from the car and you just want to get down as fast as possible...you'll be thankful to be carrying one of these if getting down requires multiple ice anchors. A bit dramatic, I realize, but we should consider how easy it is to build V-threads when we're practicing on the ground or in "easy" conditions. In "full alpine" conditions, and all the stresses that entails, I think the First Shot will eliminate a lot of time.

Imagine you have to rappel and construct four V-threads (or eight if you're equalizing two separate threads per anchor); sans First Shot, each thread takes 5-10 minutes whereas, with practice, each thread takes only two minutes with the First Shot. In this scenario you're looking at 10-15 minutes of building vs. 20-40 minutes or maybe longer if you're really botching it.

However, I have some complaints after using this heavily for the last 2.5 months. It seems a little gimmicky/quirky. Adjusting from one screw size to another and then back again can be a bit of a magic trick; it just seems to stick randomly. Also, the hook arm is made out of a pretty malleable metal that deforms relatively easily. This makes it hard to get the hook out of its "sleeve" and then especially to get it back in. That being said, I just sorta took it out and figured it out on my own, not reading the instructions (if there were any). That may have something to do with my experiences. Another thing is that you really need to have a flat ice surface for this to work (ie, placing screws on even a slight bulge with the First Shot will keep the screws too far apart). Luebben did a lot of strength-testing on V-threads and basically found them to be wildly inconsistent; I wonder if using this template would help make those results more consistent?

I've been out climbing ice a bunch and the First Shot has held up to its fair share of abuse. Maybe BD will tweak the design in the future to make it better; in the meantime, when this one dies I'll be sure to buy another.

yes the thing is clearly a gadget, but as was already posted it will save some time when you're just short of an epic. It also 'guarentees' that you have made the biggest possible "Vee" for whichever size screw----therefore it would be the strongest you could make.

I think this is comparable to the snuggie. Snuggie Commercial

A fine idea, because it makes sense, but certainly gimicky and something that an old fashioned blanket, or in this case some practice, would do just fine to get by without.

It's one more thing to carry and and I kind of don't like the idea of having a knife/saw that close to my rope or slings. I know it's far away from the hook, so this shouldn't be a problem, but I'm thinking Murphy's Law...

BTW, if you don't think the snuggie is good for anything, I'm sure you'd look just great at the crag in it...

I think I'm with Beagle on this one looks like just another piece of junk to hang off your gear loop .

Never needed a jig to drill a v thread and neather did the real ice climbers before all of us I think if you need a crutch like this you have no busness climbing ice go back to the gym.

I'm not a big fan of Black Garbage gear anymore after getting burned by there junk gloves and crappy blizzard harness I mean what retard designs a harness where the iceclippers mount underneath the gear loops then good old black garbage decides to
stick it in and break it off once more by bringing out a ice climbing harness that they should have designed in the first place.Yea there ice screws are good but how long did
it take them to pull there head out and start making the hangers out of stainless steel
that was another reason I switched to petzl screws no more rusty hangers.

Goodluck getting anything out of there warranty department outher than a big F U

I for one am tired of being there q&a at my expence

Gunkiemike wrote:How long will it be before newbs rely on this device? Then we will read somewhere that a team spent the night on an ice climb because they dropped this device and therefore could not complete their descent. As for the electric ice screw, I built one a few years ago. Gotta see where that video went...hmmm. A 13 cm BD screw is drilled to the hilt in 6.4 seconds, using one hand.

Gosh you must have rappeled out of the womb. I guess you were never new to the sport. I have never used this device and am not sure that I ever will. However, I do not feel that this gives me the right to make fun of everyone who does use it. As for it being made by BD who cares? Yes BD is very popular and sells a lot of gear with thier name on it. THIS IS CALLED GOOD MARKETING. They have become popular by building quality gear and advertising well. Petzl, Trango, cch etc. could all be as popular if they were as good at marketing thier products. P.S. bigwallrog - if you are going to rant -learn to spell.