Trango Cinch VS GriGri

Richard Radcliffe wrote:Personally, I'd recommend... Neither! Teach him/her proper belay technique (most especially extreme vigilance) using a tube or an ATC or etc. so that they get a thorough experiential understanding of what belaying is all about. Then they can graduate to an autolocker which, in my opinion, is really an advanced technique, not a beginners technique.

Just say no to auto lockers for newbies. Richard has the right idea. I have personally seen several people dropped with gris and not one from a tube device.

The gym I currently go to insists on pre-rigging grigris to the ropes and has all users use them. After a 2 minute belay speach,they are on their own. It can turn into a shit show really fast.

chuckled again. then I prayed for Sal's soul. and that he never has to lead C4. or encounters loose death blocks. or dates girls that are diseased or fertile.

EDIT: or psycho

From the Summer 2009 issue of Mountain Bulletin, the quarterly newsletter of the American Mountain Guides Association:

"Put [the Gri-Gri] in the hands of a lighter, less experienced belayer, add a pair of gloves and you have a recipe for pushing hard on a rock climb with a high level of confidence that you will not be dropped."
--Rob Hess, AMGA Technical Director

Personally the cinch is easier to use but it can be tricky. I love it because with thinner ropes it works so well. I love the smooth feeding and the lowering (isn't that bad) is worth the ability to feed rope easily.

Evan1984 wrote: Just say no to auto lockers for newbies. Richard has the right idea. I have personally seen several people dropped with gris and not one from a tube device. The gym I currently go to insists on pre-rigging grigris to the ropes and has all users use them. After a 2 minute belay speach,they are on their own. It can turn into a shit show really fast.

I, on the other hand, have taught many beginners with a gri-gri with NO problems and YES, I have personally been dropped by an inexperienced belayer using a tube-type. I guess I'm passionate about gri-gri's (altho I wasn't when they first came out)because I owe my life to one and I personally know of two other events where the gri-gri saved lives. Climbing is dangerous and we should take advantage of any technology which gives us an extra edge of safety.

Agree with others that beginners should start with an ATC type device but moving on to the next question - Cinch or Grigri... I have both and now only use the Cinch. Its smaller, lighter, handles 9.8 and thinner (ie most modern ropes these days) ropes much better than the Grigri. Feeds and takes super smooth. Similar to a Grigri, lowering can be a bit spicy with a Cinch but with a bit of practice, its not an issue. Enjoy!

I like the gri-gri; because it sounds so much more exotic

Buff Johnson wrote:I like the gri-gri; because it sounds so much more exotic

besides, the cool climbers call it a "gri"

Long time gri gri user here....

I was out cragging Thursday and a new partner I met up with for the day was using a Cinch. He offered to let me give it a go. I had watched the video on using the Cinch by Malcolm Daly and my buddy also showed me the same technique, so I gave it a shot. Holy crap, this thing makes me feel like my gri gri is obsolete now. My biggest concern was the lowering people seemed to express issue with. Using the technique suggested by Trango, it was just as smooth and easy as using a gri even the first go at it.

Anyone want to by a gri gri? Perhaps trade for a Cinch? :)

Having climbed for ten years with many new climbers, as well as the best around, I would agree with starting with a proper belay with the ATC, then graduating on to a more advanced device.

Pro's and Con's for Gri Gri and Cinch

Gri Gri: It's action takes a little of time to get used to. If you belay well with it, you will be more attentive to your climber. However a safe belay and smooth belay, according to petzl, takes a little time to master for most people. It's biggest upside compared to the Cinch is that it has a much more smooth lowering ability.

Cinch: Smoothest device I have ever used on lead hands down. Using it correctly is simple and allows for your hand to remain on the break. The only design flaw is the lower. Crossing through like they explain in their video is a little awkward unless you are lowering a 90 punder.

In the end, I have seen more problems with "auto lockers" about 8 to 1 due to two things. 1) Most frequently it has been from experienced belayers who have developed bad habits and need to revisit the "how to's" of the device. 2) False preception of ignorant belayers that think auto locking devices are fool proof.

Punter Brewster wrote:Long time gri gri user here.... I was out cragging Thursday and a new partner I met up with for the day was using a Cinch. He offered to let me give it a go. I had watched the video on using the Cinch by Malcolm Daly and my buddy also showed me the same technique, so I gave it a shot. Holy crap, this thing makes me feel like my gri gri is obsolete now. My biggest concern was the lowering people seemed to express issue with. Using the technique suggested by Trango, it was just as smooth and easy as using a gri even the first go at it. Anyone want to by a gri gri? Perhaps trade for a Cinch? :)

I switched to a Cinch after my girlfriend had trouble operating the GriGri correctly. I needed a reason to buy one and finally did.

I love it, took the GriGri off my rack and it hasn't been back in my pack since a week after I bought the cinch. Once you learn how to use it and understand it's not a GriGri, you'll be good. If you treat it like one then you're screwed from the beginning.

That all being said, I agree with the first couple of replies. Having your belayer be proficient with a tube style when starting out is very very important. Don't start with a locking assist.

I think its safe to say that no belay device is a "fix all" solution. Fact is, you want a good belayer. If you are concerned about your son not belaying properly because of attention span, maturity, or any other variable, than he should not belay just yet! No device will cure an incompetent belayer. Your belayer should be familiar with any device he or she should come in contact with. If someone cannot use a gri-gri right, than you should probably focus on why. Belay devices are not rocket science, but they do take some practice to use correctly. Do not shy away from specific devices because someone does not know how to use it correctly, instead use this as an opportunity to refine someones technique.

I agree with STEVE above. After using both the Grigri and Cinch, I prefer the Cinch! It is easier to feed the rope to lead climbers while still having a solid grip on the break hand. Two thumbs up to Trango for designing this awesome mechanism.

Endorsement of the Trango Cinch aside, I also think learning how to belay with an ATC first is crucial. I belayed with an ATC for years before making the switch to a mechanical advantage...

Love my cinch

Neither, ATC until he's proficient