Chipping in LCC

I was at Tahquitz two weeks ago and the locals had placed a wood post with a carabiner on the top as a marker for the trail up to lunch rock. Great idea, huh, low visual impact, not permanent. Within a week it was gone! Offended someone's sense of tradition, apparently.

Oh well, I liked their approach and think it would work well in LCC at trail junctions. Signage is not a bad thing when well executed. Perhaps in the case of the Egg etc its a good idea. We could at least eliminate the perceived need for chipping.

Craig Martin wrote:All this just makes me wonder how we all found the climbing areas in the old days. Oh yeah, I remember now.... we figured it out through the use of guide books, maps and our own experiences. Combine that with a little common sense and there you are at the base. All this talk about chipping and signage to the crags is just sad and embarrasing. Come on sheeple... use your heads.

I recognize I'm an "outsider" in this conversation, but couldn't agree more with you Craig. Sadly, in the days of Mapquest and TomTom, the ability to read a map and actually understand it is lost to many.

While I agree that we should all be able to track down a wall, the reality is that people are coming up with solutions to getting lost/wasting time hunting a wall down that are less than appealing to all of us on this thread. And regardless of how much we may dislike it or believe that people that are climbing should be responsible enough to do the approach, the reality is that they aren't. I'd rather have some signs as opposed to chiseled out boulders, even if I think that these people shouldn't be climbing.

back on that trail from the "sign" parking lot. is that an easier way to access "the fin?" after being devoured by oak brush for over two hours (hiking up towards thumb and over)the other day. it was too late and we were too spent to climb the damn thing. looked awesome though, can't wait to get back up there (hopefully a diff. way.) thanks for any updated approach info.

thanks Craig. i believe that is the trail we intended but definitely missed. I think maybe we were too far east. when i find it, I'll be sure to install some overhead signs with brochure type advertisements saying "fin this way!" "a must climb" "not to be missed raves rolling stone!"

This sucks, but I think it is just the beginning of something very bad.

Who ever is doing this is not going to stop.

The last thing we want to do is involve the forest service, Unless we have a witness and can have charges filed!!!

What if the climbing community were to come up with some kind of "drilling manifesto" that could be distributed with any drills and drill bits that are sold. You would have to get some kind of deal with either the drill makers or the bigger sellers like rei and mountain gear. I'm sure the smaller dedicated climbing shops would easily adopt the plan.

As for electric and gas drills I don't think this would help at all seeing that they probably come from home depot or other hardware store.

I'm not really a driller and can't really guess if these perps are using hand drills or electric/gas but it seems like some kind of education might help remedy the problem. Then again, some people are just idiots and would still do whatever they wanted.

S. Gileadi wrote: The problem will stop as soon as the person stops. I don't see this as an inevitable consequence of more traffic in these areas. No, I think that most people are perfectly capable of using their heads even if there are more of them. If one moron starts chiseling the rock, as is obviously the case here, there is no need for all of us to throw our hands up in defeat and start posting signs in Little. All that needs to happen is communication- this person simply needs to know that he is bucking the will of the community and endangering access and I think he would be smart enough to know to stop. In any case I don't see how the stupidity of the very few people who would need signposts, still only a potential handful as traffic increases, should make us start dumbing down and creating eyesores in the area. Plus, you know there would always be the special somebody who would go out of his way to take them all down anyway.

Well, if we are realistic about some of the "trails", I would hardly say some of them are obvious. Even a brainiac can get lost on the approach to the Thumb and some other areas less visited. Recognizing that someone/s are taking steps to better mark things is a sign of increased use, and an indication that volume and traffic has increased in the area.

Unfortunately, it is no longer the "old days" where there are only a handful of climbers using the walls in LCC. While it might be nice to reminisce and say that we don't need well marked trails, or that it doesn't really matter, you might simply be overstating things to say that this really isn't necessary. Maybe some better trails and clearing more foilage would be enough to make a need for signposts disappear. Who knows. Apparently signs are a waste since it sounds like most people in this group would simply destroy them. I personally think that in places that I've climbed where signs are used (smith rock, for instance), trails get much better established.

I was simply suggesting a solution that I thought might help, but it seems like most people would rather not recognize that volume has increased and would rather live in the past where all/many climbers shared the same ethics and you didn't have to deal with an increase in the popularity of a sport that has much evolved since when it first began.

Anyhow, I've shared my thoughts, good luck with whatever decision you guys decide to use to tackle this problem.

springs wrote:Apparently signs are a waste since it sounds like most people in this group would simply destroy them.

I don't think it is the signs that piss people off, it's the fact that they are "drilled" signs that are way too permanent. If it is really an area of high use and everybody is having trouble finding it a sign would be much better compared to a gazillion different trails.

However, I think old fashioned cairns and decent beta from a guidebook will suffice. Route-finding is a required skill when climbing outside of a gym.

The local guidebooks are MORE than enough to get people to where they want to go. Above all that there is the internet where you can find step by step instructions on getting just about anywhere. There is always trail work that can be done, to minimize erosion, make sure areas aren't getting trampled all over. For the fuurther and less visited areas, a good healthy scrub oak thrashing, even if it takes up a good part of the day, is something that every Wasatch climber should have to do every once in a while.
The chipped signs are ridiculous and wooden signs are probably not an option in LCC. The trails are way better now, for the most part, than they were 15 years ago. I don't recall having too many problems finding the climbing ever. Like previously stated, a little common sense is about all that is needed. And if you find yourself in the brush for hours and hours, just count it as another day in Little Rottonwood.

Ben's right. Part of climbing is getting to know areas and occasionally getting lost during that process. Exploring and discovering something new only happens once, climbers should try and enjoy it.

this sounds like someone who is REALLY high doing this or quite possibly a boy scout project. maybe both.

at least they arent painting every other tree and rock on the trail with arrows and such like in the east.

Its already been stated here, but I'll say it again.

There won't be any signs on church property, pretty much end of story. Church lawyers are under the illusion that they will have increased liability for an accident if they take any action to "enable" climbing. So, forget about signage for the Fin, Thumb, Gate, etc. I won't even discuss the trails themselves here on a public forum.

As for USFS property, the new trail to the Egg etc is nowhere to be found in existing guidebooks, obviously, but the location of the climbs themselves certainly is. Most any rock retard ought to be able to find their way up there. I don't have a problem with wooden posts or such that keep people on the right trail, but this crap isn't rocket science. Hopefully the idiot doing this stuff will catch on and stop, or someone else will clue him in.

I have a feeling that we are dealing with someone in desperate need of attention, so I think we are just feeding the troll here.

To sum it up, we have talked about putting some signs in to mark the new trail, but this is obviously not necessary. In the future there could be a bulletin board with a map and any important notices at the park and ride trail head. Some "restoration area" signs need to be installed in a few areas. Hopefully they won't be ripped out.

Enjoy the remaining "wildness" of LCC. As the trail system continues to gradually improve there will be signs, more climbers, and more use by the general public.

jonathan knight wrote:I have a feeling that we are dealing with someone in desperate need of attention, so I think we are just feeding the troll here.

DING! DING! DING! I think we have a winner!

jonathan knight wrote:I have a feeling that we are dealing with someone in desperate need of attention, so I think we are just feeding the troll here.

Yeah, smells that way to me, too.

Whoever is doing it (or, past tense, has done it), knows the area and isn't a newb. They also are handy with a power drill. They also made time to do this. This isn't something you just bang out in a few minutes (ala a can of spray paint). Required a bit of planning, some materials, etc. And, given what it was, it was well done, so, someone took a fair bit of care in the construction.

What I'm hoping, is, that whoever is doing this, is done. If they’ve stood back recently to admire their work, then, they know it wasn’t well received and was eliminated.

Allen, where did you see the signage? Was it new (ie, fresh rock dust)?

jonathan knight wrote: To sum it up, we have talked about putting some signs in to mark the new trail, but this is obviously not necessary. In the future there could be a bulletin board with a map and any important notices at the park and ride trail head. Some "restoration area" signs need to be installed in a few areas. Hopefully they won't be ripped out.

Given all the different "users" in the canyon, my bet is any sign will either get trashed and/or tagged. Be a pain to have to keep fixing. Heavy sigh...

This is the kind of situation I’m hoping the climbing community can police, and, not burden or involve "LE" type folks at any level.

-Brian in SLC

Brian in SLC wrote: "users"

users .. ha!

Hahaha,  this is pretty funny reading this thread 12 years later and there are signs everywhere and literally tons of rock was displaced to “dumb down” the approaches. . .
edit to add: I’m glad SLCA didn’t just go with chipped messages on rocks to get the herds to the routes. 

Aww memories, back when some people refused to be paid.