Technical Friends vs. Camalots

I know I saw this subject floating around a while back but this is perfect.

Doubling up. I have a set of C4s .3-3 and a 3.5 Tech Friend a friend just gave me and WC Zeros 3-6. I will eventually want to double up. Some say double up on the ones you know some say get 2 brands. Your guys' input?

vanishing spy wrote:Where does one find a #6 friend. I'm looking for one of these boat anchors and they're hard to find. Not available at: Backcountry, gearexpress, rei, ems, rockandsnow,bentgate OH, Mountaingear has one for about $150. Should I just get a big bro?

Why not just get a BD #6. You can walk a #6 cam, but (in my opinion) big bros take a lot of practice to place well, don't work well in all types of rocks and cracks, and can't be walked. The BD #6, while not as good (also my opinion)as the WC 6 is still better than the same size big bro. I got my #6 BD for $90. Hard to justify $150 for the WC when such a similar piece is $60 less.

Doug Lintz wrote:...I love the feel of my partner's C4s....they're so smooth.

Agree -- The BD C4s are very smooth, very nice...almost luxurious.

I've used WC Tech Friends for years. However, if starting over, I would definately be tempted to go with the BD C4s.

I got to handle some tech friends. The action wasn't as smooth as camalots but they felt better in my hand and they are cheaper which is important to me. Someone said something earlier about the lobes capsizing while on the gear sling. Is this still a problem?

Doug Hill wrote:...lobes capsizing while on the gear sling. Is this still a problem?

Yeah, it happens. Not a big deal. They straighten out when you pull the trigger (usually). C4s can't do that though, and the bigger range and smoothness sells me...

Doug Hill wrote:I got to handle some tech friends. The action wasn't as smooth as camalots but they felt better in my hand and they are cheaper which is important to me. Someone said something earlier about the lobes capsizing while on the gear sling. Is this still a problem?

Go with what's comfortable for you...handling, weight, features, and price. Again, both WC & BD are excellent.

I wouldn't worry about shifting lobes while racked...a non-issue. Occasionally you may have to adjust lobes/wires slightly (usually as a result from being stowed in the pack), but this is done prior to climbing (on the ground)....just part of routine inspection and maintenance.

I usually prefer the C4's because of the larger range & thumb loops. But I like the WC # 3.5 and 4 as doubles for my BD's in that size.

The WC versions are also slightly lighter, so if I am not sure I will need a 3 & 4 or need them just for one or two easy placements I will take those instead.

Paul Dieterle wrote:I just ordered some Aliens today from them.

Might want to keep the tags on them when they arrive, or even cancel your order. However use your own judgment.
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Wade Frank wrote:The c4's have the double-axel design which has numerous advantages. Black Diamond even states if the cam walks back into a crack and fully umbrellas it is just as strong as a stopper with the double-axel design and you get more range.

you do get a larger range with the double axle design, but this also results in fewer cams in a given range of inches - C4's .5 to 3 covers ~ .8" to 3" with 5 cams while Friends 1 to 3.5 cover ~.8" to 3" with 8 cams - more overlap, and you won't need a double set for a longer pitch. Also, the cam stops on friends (and DMMs) allow the pieces to function passively.

someone mentioned Metolius Powercams - personally, I find them inconvenient to handle, the range much smaller than Camalots, and the overlap between sizes insufficient to make up for the reduced range. i do not like them at all.

DMM 4CUs are the same size as tech friends, lighter, and easier to handle since they're u-stems. I prefer them to Camalots for a few reasons:

1.) I like the sizing (more cams in the same size range as mentioned above - i never carry doubles but always feel comfortable stretching a pitch with the number of cams on my rack)
2.) They handle really well - almost any way you grab them allows for trigger retraction and placement
3.) You can pull the trigger with one finger easily in all sizes, nice for deep placements where it's tough to get a whole hand in to grab the cam - also, you can grab the trigger with one nut tool, where as with single stems (camalots, mastercams, tech friends) you can't

Granted, DMMs aren't common pieces, but I've been super happy with my set. I've climbed on Camalots a good amount and while I'll admit they're very nice cams, I prefer my DMMs. Tech Friends are such a bitch to handle I wouldn't buy them unless I found a super great deal and really needed more cams.

not sure where you'd find DMMs in ann arbor - i doubt the Bivouac or Planet Rock is carrying them. anyway, bouldermountaineering.com has them. if the question was BD vs. WC I would pick BD for handle-ability.

Looks like most everyone has covered all the pertinent concerns herre.

I've been using Friends for as long as they have been out...or at least since 1978. I noticed about 4 years ago that the quality control on Black Diamond Camelots was superior to any of the Tech Friends or stem Friends that were being produced........So, I've been using Camelots more and missing using my Friends less. BD quality control is much better and once you get used to using any particular product it all works out fine.

i'm not sure that the trigger wires on the tech friends porduced over the last 10 years or so are much more enduring than the camalots (which admittedly is borderline pathetic). for as little as i use my tech friends, i have had to do quite a few trigger repairs. trigger repairs on camalots are a lot easier too, do to those wierd trigger "plugs" on the friends. i usually have to drill them out, or drill separate ghetto holes for the wires.

still can't beat the #1.5 and #2 friends in the desert though...