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Ten Climbs for 2009

Coeus · · a botched genetics experiment · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 40
Chase Gee wrote:Its Would you not consider a route ticked if in one moment of desperation you grabbed a draw for a split second?
I would not consider that a tick.
Sending a route or ticking a route is climbing from bottom to top without falling.

For example I fell on a route with the rope in the gate of the 'biners on the anchor. I had not finished clipping and when I fell the rope came out with me.
That was not a tick. I went back the next day and did the route.

If someone tells me they have "done" a route, and then I find out they wighted their gear, their credibility goes out the window.

This is all there is to climbing, going up with no falls is doing a route, otherwise it is not.

Argue about chipping, bolting, pin scars etc all you want, but this has no gray area.
Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665

Wow, well OK.
So Coeus would like a second feature on the site for tracking non-redpoints as well? To prevent someone else from "fluffing." Ok, whatever.
I would have thought that publically stating a hang was more self-depricating than fluffing, but whatever.
I''m still trying to guess is Coeus is a middle-aged empty nester that misses lecturing someone or a college kid who is over-idealistic and still mistakes his values for someone else's, or what? The pathology isn't clear yet, but it's definately not: "I'm OK, you're OK,"

Coeus · · a botched genetics experiment · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 40
Chase Gee wrote:At least she's out there climbing and not sitting in front of the computer nit-picking someones personal achievements. Her tick list is pretty damn impressive regardless if you ask me, as opposed to your pretty blank one. Maybe you can fill it in when they start naming the routes at your local gym.
The outcome is the same...
you don't know what I can climb, and I don't know what Ms. Arent can climb, because her tick list apparently includes routes she has left incomplete.

I'll tell you all a little story about why this is important to me.

There is a controversial figure on this site that I have known for a few years. This guy claimed to have "done" Cloud Tower (11+) in red rock. I decided he might actually be a decent partner. We went to do Dream of Wild Turkeys together (which I fell on, and is why it is not in my tick list.) When we got there he led the easy intro pitch and then I had to lead the rest of the way, because he "just wasn't feeling it that day." Not really a big deal in this situation....but could be in others.

Come to find out he pulled the same crap with my friend he "did" the Cloud Tower with. He led two 5.8 pitches and then got dragged the rest of the way up the thing. To make things more interesting he dropped my friend 30 feet when he took a fall on the last pitch.

I try to be honest with myself and with others. Integrity is all you have as a climber. I think that the language is pretty clear ticking or doing a route = sending and nothing else.
Coeus · · a botched genetics experiment · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 40

Tony - your tick list is impressive, however I noticed one thing that supports my point.

How does one onsight free solo something in 2006 that they did in 2004?

"Mar 6, 2006 Onsight free-solo in approach shoes. July 2004 with Stefan G." Quoted directly from your page.

This is why using your language properly with respect to climbing is important.

Ron Olsen · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 11,360

I think people should use the Tick List feature on this site anyway they choose -- the information is purely for personal use, and does not have to adhere to anyone else's rules for what is a tick and what is not.

By the standards proposed by one user with a strange photo (is that really you?), Layton Kor wouldn't have ticks on many of his first ascents because he used aid -- and that's just ridiculous.

And if you're using the Mountain Project tick list to qualify partners -- God help you.

Coeus · · a botched genetics experiment · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 40

Layton Kor's routes would be rated something like 5.9 A2. Where the A2 tells you something important (he sat on gear). But if you claim to do a 5.2 and weighted the rope...that is something else.

FWIW - I don't use this site to find partners for this reason. The guy I was talking about I know from around, he just happens to be on this site also.

I agree that a tick list is a personal thing...until you post it in a public place.

Coeus · · a botched genetics experiment · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 40
Ron Olsen wrote: ...one user with a strange photo (is that really you.
Of course it's me, aren't I handsome. Am I misrepresenting myself by using a Neandertal as my avatar? Should I say that I hung once on top rope while selecting this photo?
Ron Olsen · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 11,360
Coeus wrote:I agree that a tick list is a personal thing...until you post it in a public place.
It's still a personal thing -- whether others can see it or not. Perhaps a feature should be added to the site to allow users to hide personal info, like ticks and to-do lists.
Kevin Stricker · · Evergreen, CO · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 1,197

Personally I think the tick list should be a feature only shown to the user and not to all of MP. I use the tick feature to keep track of ascents as I don't like to mark up my guidebooks.

I think that tick is a relative term.....if you are talking about a sport climb or boulder problem the definition is pretty obvious. Traditional climbing is more about "getting to the top" so for example if you french free a move on the Yellow Wall because of wet rock I think it is OK to say you climbed it, or even ticked it if you are honest about it.

Some climbers believe that weighing the anchor on a multi-pitch route would be considered aid. Personally I find this a bit restrictive, but to each his own.

The important part is not to give other people a hard time about the routes they do or the style they do them in. You would have to be an idiot to use someone's tick list as a qualifier to do a multi-pitch route with them.

Jay Knower · · Plymouth, NH; Lander, WY · Joined Jul 2001 · Points: 6,036

Personally, I don't use the "tick" aspect of the site. I save that utility for 8a.nu. And I only go to 8a.nu during my darkest, most self absorbed, moments.

colin tucker · · Monticello, UT · Joined May 2007 · Points: 35

I have more of a mountaineering background, if I have to grab a piece to more quickly get up a multipitch climb, usually do. My climbing partner has a more sport background, he won't grab a piece unless he is absolutely about to fall. Sometimes takes a little longer on pitches where we could move faster. He doesn't criticize my style, I don't criticize his, its a personal decision. What a stupid thing to worry about.

Coeus · · a botched genetics experiment · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 40
JLP wrote: Coitus sounds
I like coitus sounds!

KevinStricker wrote: You would have to be an idiot to use someone's tick list as a qualifier to do a multi-pitch route with them.
Agreed. Which is why I don't.

By the way this is a far more entertaining conversation than what 10 climbs you wish to do in 2009....wish in one hand and s**t in the other and see which fills up faster.

Hypothetical situation....what if a guy who claimed to have done a free route on El Cap comes out and says he hung a couple of times, would this change your opinion of his accomplishment?
Kat A · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 510

Wow, I can't believe how off-track this forum post has gone from Ten Climbs for 2009 to What is a Real Tick. I have laughed quite a bit reading everyone's posts.

When Matt posted he wanted to climb Fat City, and would "send this mf even if I have to pull the rope" his honesty and straightforwardness made me smile. So I looked back on my "tick" list and saw that I pulled on a piece, and thus I could relate to Matt's comment about the route. Like many other climbers, I like to keep track of the routes I've done, noting if I lead or followed, and if I sent it clean or fell/hung/aided - and the MP tick list is great for this. I am honest with myself about my abilities and weaknesses, having the info saved on MP is a nice reference for later attempts to send the route in better style (I don't have the a great memory for details). My definition of "tick" might differ from someone elses, but when it comes to climbing with new partners I am very honest and open about my abilities - I'll tell him/her the types of routes I climb cleanly and those which I would prefer to follow or might have to hang/yard on a piece if I lead it. (As evident by my posting in this forum how I pulled on a piece.) For multipitch trad I'd much rather aid a crux move than spend an hour or two working out the moves, while my partner is likely bored as heck. Likewise I'd want my partner to do the same if time is an issue, such as climbing an alpine route.

Coeus · · a botched genetics experiment · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 40
JLP wrote: As someone who's freed a couple pitches... near El Cap,
I didn't realize I was in the presence of such greatness. I apologize for not recognizing your accomplishments.

JLP wrote:Well, you've just pegged yourself as a clueless wanker
The only thing I'm clueless about apparently is what it means to "do" a route. I was mistakenly under the impression that doing something in free climbing meant to climb without falls.

By the way Kateri - I am not trying to pick on you or your achievements. I am sincere in my respect for your honesty in your route list.

As a young climber I heard a story about Mike Freeman getting on some kid's case about "doing" a route when he had sat or fallen on the rope. This made a lasting impression on me and I strive to send routes without falls so that I can claim them. I "collect" routes if you will and I feel it diminishes my ticks when others claim them without "doing" them.
superhero · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 0

so JLP (idiot) i can go out climb a route hang on gear and claim the FFA and that's not a problem. assuming it has nod been done,well with the standards you hold who cares if it has been done

Tony B · · Around Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 24,665
Coeus wrote:Tony - your tick list is impressive, however I noticed one thing that supports my point. How does one onsight free solo something in 2006 that they did in 2004? "Mar 6, 2006 Onsight free-solo in approach shoes. July 2004 with Stefan G." Quoted directly from your page. This is why using your language properly with respect to climbing is important.
Too bad you didn't delineate the fields. Too bad you presume the worst.
Because one is the date you enter it on the data base (06), and the other is the one when I did it (04), which was entered manually, reading from my guidebooks where I keep my notes.
Coeus · · a botched genetics experiment · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 40
Tony Bubb wrote: Too bad you didn't delineate the fields. Too bad you presume the worst. Because one is the date you enter it on the data base (06), and the other is the one when I did it (04), which was entered manually, reading from my guidebooks where I keep my notes.
I just pulled that straight from your comment on the route field. No delineation necessary. go back and look, most of your comment fields don't start with a date, but this one does.

I quoted your own typing directly.

JLP - I went back and put in an ellipsis (...) in the quote so that it is more accurate.

By the way, this thread doesn't need name calling.
Paul Hunnicutt · · Boulder, CO · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 325

I use the "tick" list as a record of my climbs. I just won't keep a journal ever and this way I can see how I'm progressing and how much I've gotten outside. I can also go back and recall how I did on a particular climb, because I record a note with each climb - TR, redpoint, OS, etc....There are plenty of climbs I want to note I've been on. I don't care really if I've sent them all or not as that isn't the point of my climbing really. It also helps me remember who I've been out with and maybe brings back some good (or bad) memories of the day. One of the best features of the site IMHO.

It is also useful for partners to search and see what level I'm at to see if we are compatible. I use it likewise. Thus I don't mind that it is public. It isn't about proving anything, just hey here's what I've been up to (or for this winter NOT up to). Besides NO ONE is really going to care about my sends or not sends. EVER. except me. However, I can see someone wanting it private.

I don't see people listing what they have been climbing as something to get your panties in a bunch about. 8a.nu has that covered.

Coeus · · a botched genetics experiment · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 40
Paul Hunnicutt wrote: I don't see people listing what they have been climbing as something to get your panties in a bunch about. 8a.nu has that covered.
If we can't agree on what it means to "do" a route, how can we communicate what we have accomplished. Let's face it climbing is fun, but the true satisfaction comes from goals achieved.

You can't claim a marathon after running 26 miles, only after running 26.2. You can't claim a route if you hang (unless you are aiding...which isn't really climbing is it?)
ZachBradford · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 1,245

Pretty much all local routes

1) Second Coming, Chuckawalla Wall
2) Banana Dance, Turtle Wall
3) Dancing Fox, Turtle Wall
4) Three Bars black, Chuckawalla Wall
5) Rimjob, Sprocket Rocks
6) Scissor fight, The sweet Hills Wash
7) Leopard Skin, Snow Canyon State Park
8) Last of the Mohicans, Shinobe
9) Mega Marvels, the Sweet Hills Wash
10) Get a couple first Ascents

And Many more.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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