Longs Peak Base Jump 7/23/08

I don't know why I'm still here, but...

Marc Horan wrote: one relates to climbing in specific areas at specific times and the other is a blanket-ban on an entirely different activity.

Incorrect. Some bird-bans are perrenial (like the Ralston Butte ban), as are some BASE bans (like the NPS ban). Some bird-bans are temporary (like the Redgarden ban), and some BASE bans are temporary (like the ban on jumping from the NRG bridge).

Both Bird-bans & BASE bans are geographically based (the activity is allowed in certain areas and prohibited in others). For example, BASE is allowed on BLM land, not allowed on NPS land. Climbing is allowed in CCC, not allowed on Ralston Buttes.

Furthermore, I would argue, that these are not "entirely different activit[ies]" in the eyes of land managers. Both are frivolous, viewed as high-risk, recreation, don't generate significant revenue for the agency, and involve fringe user groups with little political power.

Actually BASE jumping isn't banned in National Parks. It falls under the aerial delivery law. This law was first written to stop hunter and squatters in NPS land from having supplies dropped off to them via parachute. This is the outdated law that rangers throw at jumpers. The NPS issues a permit for 6 hours a year in October that people can jump the New River Gorge Bridge, it is also during this time that rappellers are allowed to rappel off it. Basically the NPS sucks and doesn't support constitutional rights and freedom. They are using a way old outdated law to mess with people.

Monomaniac wrote:I don't know why I'm still here, but... Incorrect. Some bird-bans are perrenial (like the Ralston Butte ban), as are some BASE bans (like the NPS ban). Some bird-bans are temporary (like the Redgarden ban), and some BASE bans are temporary (like the ban on jumping from the NRG bridge).

I think you missed the gist of my post. But that's OK. I've put my opinion out there and people are free to form their own opinions (if they haven't already).

Safe climbing and jumping everyone!

--Marc

SAL wrote:Holy friggen shitstains batman!!! You met Servantes himself??? I sure hope you offered to rub his shoulders during belay changes.

SAL, I told you I wouldn't let anyone else do that for me!!

On to the original post. . .
I was climbing under FC John when we saw the BASE jumper. WOW!!!
That's not the first time I've seen this and it looked just as bad ass as every other time!! I watched a guy jump off El Cap when we were about 1/2 way up the Shnozz right at dusk when visibility was a bit low. Then a week or two later saw 2 guys launch off Half Dome in bird suits. Friggin SICK!!!! These guys had to have flown for over a minute before disappearing north-east around the slabs and didn't open their chutes the entire time that we could see them!!! That looks like a rush!!

Then the BIG "D"!! At first, I thought it was some sort of rock fall or something. Scared the hell outta me!! Did the typicall lean in and cover my head routine then, looked up and saw the jumper with his chute open sailing gracefully to the valley floor. He was doing some spins and turns and just looked to be having AT LEAST as good a time as we were on a beautifull alpine morning!! I was a bit jealous for a second!! Dreams of flying passed through my head!!

The funny thing is we were camped up at chasm for three nights. Monday, before I left I had made b-day plans my girl (her b-day) for indoor skydiving when I returned. (I realize it's probably equateable to the gym vs. outdoor argument) But gosh dang that was fun!! I'm going back and I think I'll have to pick up another hobby to add to my list of things to make me not want to work!! (not the indoor thing but real skydiving not even considering BASE after what Hank had to say!!)

P.S. I smoked Chucky in that battle!! Ask him.

Kateri, you're too kind you girls were a pleasure too hang out with keep pushing and having a great time!! And, to answer your ???
I don't eat breakfast, just "coffe, sometimes toast" ;)

Well just had to stop by work to check some e-mails (I'm on vacation)
so I'm outta here!! I'll be at Chasm for another 3 nights this coming week staying out of the heat! Hope to see some of you out there!!

Frijol Saltando ;)

Another jumper:
Dave Champion and I were in the North Chimney this morning at first light. We heard a loud sound like a jet plane and looked up. In the dim light, it looked like a stealth fighter was buzzing the top of Longs. A moment later we heard the nylon flapping from the wing suit. He popped the chute below Broadway and it made a tremendous racket in the still morning air. For a moment it looked like he was going to swing back into the lower east face but he quickly corrected and landed about 50 feet from the end of the snow on Mills. Pretty amazing.

Not So Famous Old Dude wrote:But BASE jumpers should respect all jumping bans, right? I mean, if we respect falcon closures, we should respect NPS bans on jumping, right? Right?

As a BASE jumper and a climber, I for one, as well as the people I jump/climb with respect all wildlife bans and accept them as the way it is. I do not, however, have the same respect for the NPS as I do for nesting raptors...

Richard Radcliffe wrote: Then why aren't there more people BASE jumping off of Long's?

Because it's a gnarly jump/landing, and the majority of BASE jumpers don't have the technical skills to make the approach/jump.

Greg German wrote:Another jumper: For a moment it looked like he was going to swing back into the lower east face but he quickly corrected and landed about 50 feet from the end of the snow on Mills. Pretty amazing.

It wasn't a "he", it was a she, heh heh!

Rich Servantes III wrote: SAL, I told you I wouldn't let anyone else do that for me!! On to the original post. . . I was climbing under FC John when we saw the BASE jumper. WOW!!! That's not the first time I've seen this and it looked just as bad ass as every other time!! I watched a guy jump off El Cap when we were about 1/2 way up the Shnozz right at dusk when visibility was a bit low. Then a week or two later saw 2 guys launch off Half Dome in bird suits. Friggin SICK!!!! These guys had to have flown for over a minute before disappearing north-east around the slabs and didn't open their chutes the entire time that we could see them!!! That looks like a rush!! Then the BIG "D"!! At first, I thought it was some sort of rock fall or something. Scared the hell outta me!! Did the typicall lean in and cover my head routine then, looked up and saw the jumper with his chute open sailing gracefully to the valley floor. He was doing some spins and turns and just looked to be having AT LEAST as good a time as we were on a beautifull alpine morning!! I was a bit jealous for a second!! Dreams of flying passed through my head!! The funny thing is we were camped up at chasm for three nights. Monday, before I left I had made b-day plans my girl (her b-day) for indoor skydiving when I returned. (I realize it's probably equateable to the gym vs. outdoor argument) But gosh dang that was fun!! I'm going back and I think I'll have to pick up another hobby to add to my list of things to make me not want to work!! (not the indoor thing but real skydiving not even considering BASE after what Hank had to say!!) P.S. I smoked Chucky in that battle!! Ask him. Kateri, you're too kind you girls were a pleasure too hang out with keep pushing and having a great time!! And, to answer your ??? I don't eat breakfast, just "coffe, sometimes toast" ;) Well just had to stop by work to check some e-mails (I'm on vacation) so I'm outta here!! I'll be at Chasm for another 3 nights this coming week staying out of the heat! Hope to see some of you out there!! Frijol Saltando ;)

Happy Birthday Primo!

Hank Caylor wrote: It wasn't a "he", it was a she, heh heh!

NO WAY!! SWEET!!!!
"IF" you happen to know her....tell her congrats.

josh

J. Thompson wrote:"IF" you happen to know her....tell her congrats. josh

You know who she is. But a gentleman never asks and a lady never tells.

Hank Caylor wrote: It wasn't a "he", it was a she, heh heh!

I am a presumptuous male.
The lady in question has my sincere apology and admiration.

80)

Hank Caylor wrote: You know who she is. But a gentleman never asks and a lady never tells.

That ain't no lady! And neither one of us are gentlemen!

....kidding of course! Super excited for her.

josh

FC John wrote:On our way back to the car climbing Ranger Bill stopped us at Chasm Lake with some questions about what we witnessed. It sounds like there have been rumors of base jumpers off of Longs for years, but this was the first time that the rangers actually witness the act.

I believe Don Sampson was the first to base jump off longs (~1994). He was my roommate briefly in Boulder. The rangers did briefly talk to him in the parking lot when he was spotting shoving a parachute in his trunk, but they didn't really do anything.

Don was way sketchy and had forged a parachute logbook to make it look like he had more experience. He ended up dead from an accident trying to base jump off the royal gorge bridge.

Has anyone ever challenged this law in court?  The section is entitled "Aircraft and air delivery" which pretty clearly implies it refers to jumping from an aircraft not an object.

"(3) Delivering or retrieving a person
or object by parachute, helicopter, or
other airborne means, except in emergencies
involving public safety or serious
property loss, or pursuant to the
terms and conditions of a permit."

Jumping from an object is neither delivery nor retrieval or a person since the person doesn't enter or leave the park during the jump.  I realize that most BASE jumpers who get caught jumping in NPS land would rather just plead guilty, pay the fine, and move on to the next BASE jump.  But it seems reasonable that a "not guilty" plea, argued on the grounds that the law doesn't apply to BASE jumping, could result in a favorable ruling.  That would set a precedent that would put an end to this policy once and for all.

Dan Raymond wrote: Has anyone ever challenged this law in court? 

You're not being serious, are you? "Delivering a person by parachute" seems to encompass base-jumping.

In any case there's also §2.1(3), which prohibits throwing rocks or "other items" into valleys or down hillsides or mountainsides. That would seem to prohibit throwing yourself off the edge of a cliff.

Dan Raymond wrote: Has anyone ever challenged this law in court?  The section is entitled "Aircraft and air delivery" which pretty clearly implies it refers to jumping from an aircraft not an object.

"(3) Delivering or retrieving a person
or object by parachute, helicopter, or
other airborne means, except in emergencies
involving public safety or serious
property loss, or pursuant to the
terms and conditions of a permit."

Jumping from an object is neither delivery nor retrieval or a person since the person doesn't enter or leave the park during the jump.  I realize that most BASE jumpers who get caught jumping in NPS land would rather just plead guilty, pay the fine, and move on to the next BASE jump.  But it seems reasonable that a "not guilty" plea, argued on the grounds that the law doesn't apply to BASE jumping, could result in a favorable ruling.  That would set a precedent that would put an end to this policy once and for all.

I like how you resurrect a nine year old thread to demonstrate your lack of reading comprehension.  And no, "delivering or retrieving" does not exclusively refer to getting someone/something in or out of the park.

Seems like our all Republican Congress, Court and Executive outta be able to make some changes to existing NPS and Wilderness laws. Maybe its time for them to put up or shut up about freedom and personal accountability. Did a long run in the Desolation Wilderness yesterday. Woulda been a whole lot of fun to paraglide back to Tahoe from one of those peaks.

Martin le Roux and jg fox:  Thank you for your legal opinions but I think you're wrong.  If this defense is never argued and ruled upon then we'll never know.

Dan, obviously there is only one solution. You need to huck yerself off Long's Peak so to challenge the law.

But perhaps beforehand you might want to do a bit of reading (note the dates):

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/56/1214/2449434

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-10th-circuit/1075588.html

FYI: Colorado is within the 10th Circuit Court.