Base jump off the Diamond 7/28/08

The thompson twins will reunite!! Beware Guns of the Navarrone and Red squirrel!

J. Thompson wrote: Couple of things...the Cops are on my side, always, trust me on this. Also don't forget it's *you'RE*....my grammar is typically so bad I just love it when I get to correct someone else! Oh and I don't dance....but you do have a pretty mouth, so I MIGHT make an exception. I'm glad to see that you can take a joke, and dish it back. cheers, josh

Glad I can help with the grammer thing.

My mom always told me this mouth would get me more then just an ass kicking.
Its about time it paid off :)
Cheers to all.
Im off to climb some over bolted choss in bocan. Woop!

Sorry SAL, that was a burn.......and a good one too.

Hank Caylor wrote:Sorry SAL, that was a burn.......and a good one too.

Yeah Hank. I have been imobile and covered in cream since "the burn".
Thinking of you...

SAL wrote: and the answer is????

Yo SAL'ee - you asking me a question or giving me an answer???

Mark Nelson wrote: Yo SAL'ee - you asking me a question or giving me an answer???

I was waiting on the answer for your question on the first support team for the FA of the diamond.

I appear to be the only one that tried to answer.
im probably wrong ::))

Check out my mad Photoshop skills. I had to modify the jumper so you can't recognize him (same with the chute), but you get the idea.

Andy Leach wrote:Check out my mad Photoshop skills. I had to modify the jumper so you can't recognize him (same with the chute), but you get the idea.

Nice work, Andy. Based on these impressive photos, I am moved to recant my previous position and now believe that BASE jumpers should not be constrained by these myopic regulations and should be free to soar with the eagles. Jump on, brave and noble souls...

Not So Famous Old Dude wrote: Nice work, Andy. Based on these impressive photos, I am moved to recant my previous position and now believe that BASE jumpers should not be constrained by these myopic regulations and should be free to soar with the eagles. Jump on, brave and noble souls...

I'm with stupid ^^^^

hahahahahaahahaha

By the way have you ever considered going into graphic design...you clearly have an eye for " the biz" haah

I know that guy.
Im turning him in...

I am kind of in the middle on this, but I would like to add something for everyone to think about.

A couple weeks ago a friend and I were bivying at the base of half dome so we could climb the regular northwest face the next day. At dusk we were cooking dinner and chatting with another pair of climbers that were also staying there. Mid sentence, all talking stopped as other senses were telling us that there was something falling above us. Something BIG. Now that I know that sound, I might recognize it next time, but at the time it sounded like a school bus was falling on us. The scene probably looked like 4 rats scattering as we ran in every direction, some towards the wall, others away, nobody was really thinking anything except "holy shit I am scared".

Once the base jumpers went past us (their chutes didn't open until halfway down the death slabs! wingsuits are incredible) and I recognized what it actually was through the failing light, I thought it was pretty cool. One of the other guys did not think it was very cool. In the scramble he had sprained his ankle which was already swelling. Like me, he had dreamed of climbing half dome for years and his current opportunity was gone.

The next day the injured climber managed to scramble up the slope to the east and then get carried out on a horse. I had cut my foot pretty bad on a rock (ok I was barefoot, but hiking up the death slabs in the sun is brutal) but still managed to climb the route.

The point I am trying to make is this. I would guess a LOT of the basejumpers out there are also climbers and know how f***ing scary the prospect of mass rockfall is. So jumping off and scaring the shit out of people and possibly ruining someones trip is a real possibility.

Would I like to try base jumping someday? Hell yes!! But after this experience I would probably go someplace without a ton of people hanging around the base. Perhaps Notch peak in Utah??

Interesting story, Aaron. Perhaps BASE jumpers should sound an air horn or something to alert everyone below. Of course they do not want to do this in Yosemite as BASE jumping is illegal.

I remember when I last climbed El Cap (over 10 years ago) there was a BASE jumper that had died by messing up and striking El Cap Tower. If BASE jumping was legal in Yosemite, it would seem inevitable that eventually a BASE jumper would hit a climber on the way down. What if there had been somebody sleeping on El Cap Tower when the guy hit?

George Bell wrote: If BASE jumping was legal in Yosemite, it would seem inevitable that eventually a BASE jumper would hit a climber on the way down. What if there had been somebody sleeping on El Cap Tower when the guy hit?

Big wall cliff strikes are incredibly rare in modern jumping due to improved technique and equipment.
Nearly every cliff strike is under canopy so the impact forces are very minimal.

Your fears are unfounded.

grayhghost wrote: Big wall cliff strikes are incredibly rare in modern jumping due to improved technique and equipment. Nearly every cliff strike is under canopy so the impact forces are very minimal. Your fears are unfounded.

Hey, grayhghost, neither here nor there, but is that invariably fatal for the jumper? Or do they sometimes survive by snagging and awaiting rescue, or sliding and then reestablishing the canopy? Asking the question sounds pretty ridiculous, so I'm guessing not...

most cliff, or other object, strikes under canopy are survived because modern parachutes are designed to stay inflated after a strike, allowing the jumper to turn the canopy away from the object

getting hung up on the object is also a real, and survivable, possibility

that said, object strike under canopy is the leading cause of death for jumpers

OK, only a semi hijack, since the OP is about BASE jumping...but how does a canopy stay inflated when someone hits El Cap Tower, loses forward momentum, and bounces 80' on ledges?

Asked differently, how does soft-fabric airfoil design compensate for the different physics between flight and collision?

EDIT: "semi hijack"...if you're quick Ruland, that's just a slow lob soft pitch for one of your images

Aaron G wrote:The point I am trying to make is this. I would guess a LOT of the basejumpers out there are also climbers and know how f***ing scary the prospect of mass rockfall is. So jumping off and scaring the shit out of people and possibly ruining someones trip is a real possibility. Would I like to try base jumping someday? Hell yes!! But after this experience I would probably go someplace without a ton of people hanging around the base.

Aaron; sorry to hear about your friends' injury in the valley--and you're so right...rockfall is scary for everyone.

You are also right in wanting to try to BASE jump someday. It IS incredible. but really, think about what you said in terms of fair use of our parks for everyone. As climbers, any of us can accidentally trundle a rock at any time--we know this, and we know there may be others below us, and we STILL choose to climb there. As a climber at the base of a cliff, I am aware that at any time, rockfall can (and does) rain down from time to time whether naturally occurring or from another party. That's just a part of climbing that is a universally accepted fact. Does that mean we should only climb in desolate areas sans other people at the base of the climb? Of course not. Why should jumpers have to limit their activities for the same reason? Should jumpers also not jump in places like Potash road or the tombstone in Moab (BLM land)?

Yes, there is an antiquated NPS "law" that generally prohibits BASE jumping in National Parks. And (in the spirit of Ben Franklin) yes, many BASE jumpers "continuously defy" that law by jumping in OUR parks. But what harm are we really doing? This law, known as "Illegal Aerial Delivery," is a 1965 law originally set in place to prevent the resupplying of squatters (generally illegally mining) in the National Parks via parachute. It has been repeatedly used against backcountry parachutists for decades.

CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS, TITLE 36 - PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY, CHAPTER 1 - NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, PART 2--RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION

36 CFR 2.17 - Aircraft And Air Delivery
(a) The following are prohibited:

Operating or using aircraft on lands or water [...]
Where a water surface is designated pursuant to paragraph (a.1) of this section, operating or using aircraft under power on the water within 500 feet [...]
Delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute, helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.
2006 NPS Management Policies
8.2.2.7 Parachuting
Parachuting (or BASE jumping), whether from an aircraft, structure, or natural feature, is generally prohibited by 36 CFR 2.17(a)(3). However, if determined through a park planning process to be an appropriate activity, it may be allowed pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit.
...and here is the old policy for reference:

2001 NPS Management Policies
8.2.2.7 BASE Jumping
BASE (Buildings, Antennae, Spans, Earth forms) jumping, also known as fixed object jumping, involves an individual wearing a parachute jumping from buildings, antennae, spans (bridges), and earth forms (cliffs). This is not an appropriate public use activity within national park areas, and is prohibited by 36 CFR 2. 17( 3)..

If you REALLY want to read up on some of the history, download this .pdf: backcountryparachutists.org… -

I guess the point of my post is just to say what's REALLY the big deal here? Is it a bigger deal that some people got questioned by rangers, or is it a bigger deal that American citizens, many of whom are your fellow climbers and mountaineers, are being denied access to our parks based on semantics, old scores, and antiquated laws?

Most BASE jumpers practice LNT ethics to the nth degree and truly love and respect the places that we jump. All we want is fair access to practice our passions just as we all do climbing. The NPS has shut us down at every turn, even in the most organized of our efforts.

This is a situation where we need to band together as park users, not divide into factions of climbers vs. BASE jumpers, paragliders, Hang gliders, etc. As far as I can see, there are no valid reasons that parachuting activities and climbing can't co-exist side by side without problems in our national parks--even overlap at times!

Anyhow, I just wanted to provide some insight from the perspective of someone who is both a climber AND a BASE jumper.
Feel free to flame away if you're somehow offended by what I have to say.

PS: This is posted without my real name because the NPS regularly peruses these forums and keep lists of information on BASE jumpers (as confirmed by NPS rangers in the past).
salud,
MHKR

Shawn:
Short Version: BASE specific canopies utilize mono-directional valves on their underside to allow the wing to stay inflated when forward momentum is suddenly changed to downward momentum

Long Version: basejumper.com/Articles/Gea…

grayhghost: interesting, thanks.

NPSFear: your info about the background of the ban is enlightening and frustrating, but doesn't really change the practical issues of trying not to provoke crackdown by officialdom.

Main reason for the post, however, is the lawyer in me that can't refrain from pointing out that your analogy is somewhat facile. When we climb, we might trigger rockfall, but we strive mightily to avoid it. In contrast, every BASE jumper knows, every time s/he jumps, that s/he will sound like a freight train coming down.

Doesn't mean s/he shouldn't jump, but comparing possible accident with inevitable consequence is not a strong argument in the deliberation.

EDIT: grayhghost: what is with that middle "h"? Your moniker would be so cool without it!

Shawn Mitchell wrote:NPSFear: your info about the background of the ban is enlightening and frustrating, but doesn't really change the practical issues of trying not to provoke crackdown by officialdom.

Shawn, you are of course, right about changing the practical issues...I presented the info in an effort to get other climbers to place themselves in the proverbial shoes of BASE jumpers in a similar situation.

Shawn Mitchell wrote:When we climb, we might trigger rockfall, but we strive mightily to avoid it. In contrast, every BASE jumper knows, every time s/he jumps, that s/he will sound like a freight train coming down. Doesn't mean s/he shouldn't jump, but comparing possible accident with inevitable consequence is not a strong argument in the deliberation.

but are you saying that the "inevitable consequence" is the SOUND of rockfall? Personally, I have heard both the unexpected sounds of BIG rockfall as well as that of BASE jumpers in freefall, and I don't think that they sound too much alike, excepting possibly the sound of an opening canopy on a low jump, but that clearly wasn't an issue in Aaron's situation.

To try and simplify that point, which may or may not be glib, I say again that ALL climbers need to be aware of the potential of objects falling from above them when they're parked at the bottom of a cliff. Therefore, if one were to insinuate blame on a BASE jumper for a situation such as with Aaron's friends' injury it would seem like a lack of personal responsibility to me. Were it actually rockfall, and an amkle was still sprained, would it be the rock's fault?

So it may not be a strong argument as you put it, but I'm not a lawyer. I was simply trying to point out that there are MANY differences between a BASE jumper and a falling rock, including the sound.
cheers!
MHKR