Climbing is an Empty Pursuit

My name is Ryan and I been off the rock for 3 weeks.

OK, not true. I did slip into a relapse on the side of a mtb trail and threw up a bouldering (likely) first ascent in my mountain bike shoes (probably v10). But besides that, I haven't been out in a while.

Why have I taken a break from one of my passions and a lifestyle I love? Because climbing is an empty pursuit.

Empty because there is no goal, no ending, no glory, no money and no future in climbing.

Sure there's the summit, number chasing, and friends/partners to compete with but ultimately climbing has no finish line. You just go on forever, doing the same things and not much changes. The wall gets steeper and the holds tinier but does that really make your life more enjoyable?

There is no ending to climbing because you'll never be the best. Even if you made it your goal to be the best, if you're reading this website, you're probably not climbing 5.15 and never will. So you flounder in the middle, somewhere between the elites and people that have never touched rock. Alpine adventures somewhat address this, because there is a definite end- climb until you got the best view, but then you come back down, your knees are sore and you're lucky you didn't get a rock dropped on you by a marmot, struck by lightning, or some of my favorites, poison ivy and giardia!

And don't get me wrong, views are important in climbing. This lifestyle (I hate degrading climbing a sport, so much more to it than that) has taken me to more amazing places than I could ever imagine and shown me things that few other humans have ever seen. The flip side of this argument is that I've also spent many weekends alone in a tent in the middle of nowhere with another dude.

And for what? There is no parade waiting to greet us upon our successful return, no history books waiting to be written (on the Front Range of Colorado, within my ability and creativity levels), and no groupies. I can go do a hard route or a big wall or a gnarly peak, I get back down, and I feel no different. A small sense of accomplishment is the only reward but not enough to overcome the anti-social empty feelings of a weekend spent far away from other humans. I've met dozens of old hardmen over my young and brief climbing career and what do they have to show for being such badasses? Some scars and maybe a hippie wife if they're lucky. And besides a few fellow climbing geeks that might recognize them (harder to do when they're not wearing lycra), they're basically nobodys on the street like everyone else.

Lastly, there is no money or future in climbing (except for the occasional congressman). You're a dirtbag, I'm a dirtbag, we're all dirtbags. How can we afford all the shiny new toys we need when we're working for minimum wage in a climbing shop/gym/guiding/living in a van down by the river? Climbing glorifies and encourages surviving on a minimalist level. Which I dig and flourish at right now, but someday I want a boat and a plane ticket to Thailand and a full rack of C4s with all wire biners and a bathroom big enough to play baseball in, etc. As far as I can tell, there's no way to make money in climbing As a recent college grad, I'm currently seeking ways to combine a worthy career with passions of my life. That's why I've hung up the sticky rubber and clicked into my pedals for this summer. I feel biking, like skiing, is a small industry but one with tons of sponsors dumping tons of money into. And biking also makes a great cross-trainer for my other life passion, skiing, while climbing seems to focus on completely separate set of muscles and skills.

I'll end my rant by saying I love climbing. I just wish there was a more socially friendly finish line with a bunch of hot groupies waiting at the top of the crag. Maybe I should start bouldering more.

Sounds like your in it for the wrong reasons dude. Your never going to have a greating party at the the top of the route with tons of hot groupies wanting to jump you nuts(atleast it's very highly unlikely). No offence that's just the nature of the beast.

As far as getting paid to climb...... Good Luck, as far as getting paid for skiing or biking for that matter good luck again. I have been on snow my whole life, since I was 2. On a snowboard for the past 16 years atleast. I can play in the park but who cares my passion is in the mountains, as I like to ride things most everyone else thinks is insane. I have rode down things that few others have or even can for that matter but I don't have a single sponsor despite spending about $2000 on camera equipment, and putting 2 or more solid years toward getting footage and progression. The only way your really going to make it in that realm is if your the tiger woods or lance armstrong of the niche. That's why most of us either have real jobs or we commit to the dirtbag lifestyle or fall somewhere in between.

This is how I look at climbing which in my opinion makes it a little less empty of a pursuit (not that I can't relate to what your getting at, or not that I don't agree with you it's just a little perspective that's all).

The fulfillment of climbing comes from the happiness or joy earned during the process, this can be achieved in a number of ways. I personaly have a huge vault of memories that I will never forget from being in the mountains in general, which brings me joy(even the bad experiences can now be laughed at as the learning has taken place). having cameras is a bonus cause it makes those memories hard to forget.
I don't know about you but the people I climb and snowboard with might as well be my brother, with the level of trust involved. Good luck trying to find that bond at a party.

The good times in my opinion don't just come from the compitition or number chasing. like soloing for that matter, I can climb something really easy and still feel just as satisfied as when I'm number chasing. For me it comes down to being 1 with my surrounding and cutting out all of the bullshit involved in the "real world" and social scene. You see what's really important and what really matters and what's really real (like the laws of nature). The fullfilment comes in many forms weather it is acomplishment, failure, or just cruising some really fun stone at a leasurely pace and mentality. It can give me strength that I would never achieve in the real world through work or some dumb social event, and make me truely understand why I'm alive. What makes me a man. If that's empty then so be it.

the ability to experience and see things that most people in the entire world will never know is pretty priceless in my opinion.
I can't imagine thinking of climbing and having passion for the mountains as emptiness in my live, infact with out them I would have emptiness.

Agreed, you're in it for the wrong reasons. Climbing, for most people, isn't meant to be a job; it's a form of recreation. And demanding fame and glory is pretty childish. Just do it for the sake of being outdoors. Take some pleasure in your accomplishments. Have fun. If you can't do any of that, you're right then. You should probably find another sport. If you want the undying devotion of the masses, go into politics or something.

John Hegyes wrote: If you want the undying devotion of the masses, go into politics or something.

Hah. Not quite. Maybe become a movie star. But I 4th the notion that you're looking for the wrong things in climbing.

One other thought: you'll have difficulty finding the things you described in your post anywhere else in life either. Most of our efforts, successes, and failures are more private (thank goodness) known only to ourselves, our family, close friends, or colleagues.

Find joy on the trail, not in the applause. But you've got some time to decide if that's right. Good luck.

Nice try, Ryan, but I'm not buying it. The smile on your face in your climbing pics is way too big. Just consider this thread your fifteen minutes of fame. Now shut up and go climbing.

Well, it looks like Ken and I as well as so many others have completely wasted the best years of our lives......SQUANDERED so much potential on this empty pursuit we call rock climbing. I've especially wastted lots of money purchasing ice climbing gear, alpine climbing gear not to mention the places I've visited like: Nepal, Pakistan, thailand, Scotland (well, that trip WAS a waste), er and so many others which were purely for the sake of climbing routes......

Groupies, well......I've known many and they are all overrated....
Money, I have none.......

If only I'd known.
If only I'd planned ahead and thought out these last 40 years of my life.......
WASTED youth AND old age..!!!

I think I'll go just go out and pull on a V10......

JACK

Ken Cangi wrote:Nice try, Ryan, but I'm not buying it. The smile on your face in your climbing pics is way too big. Just consider this thread your fifteen minutes of fame. Now shut up and go climbing.

Amen. Give him another month and he'll be back on the rock. Nobody said that climbing has to be pursued to the exclusion of all else. I play tennis and ski and climb and my interest and motivation in each waxes and wanes, though I always come back to each. He might spend the rest of the summer on a bike, but by fall he'll be eyeing those cams and shoes too hard to ignore.

Yep. Fall always brings out the worst in me.......wasting valuable work time for the pleasures of rampling amount the cool rock.

And then, well there's tennis........All these grown men and women spending their precious life breath chasing around little day-glow green balls on a hot black asphalt court. All the time becoming only more mediorce and NOT making money. Not to mention the after affects of sore knees, tennis elbow and bruised egos from never being able to maintain a volley.......Better to become an accountant and count up all the money you're making.

Oh, I'm so embarassed......It wasn't a V10 I was gonna pull.
Turns out it was only V1 or rather V- NOTHING!

It seems that most of us in this climbing community feel similarly regarding this topic. I am no different. I don't climb for money or fame or "shiny new toys", but rather something else. I could waste my time trying to explain, but it is something that should not have to be explained. If you are doing it for the right or real reasons, it should be understood. The feeling of accomplishment, and what is learned about oneself through climbing, are only earned. To me, something earned is obviously far more satisfying than something purchased.

Ryan, when you started climbing, did you expect to get rich doing it? Did you expect someone to throw you a parade or for hot groupies to come rushing your way? Honestly? Money is money, and like it or not, it is something we all need to varying degrees. But as far as the parades and groupies, I hope to never have to endure those. You said that climbing has taken you to more amazing places than you could ever imagine and shown you things that few other humans have ever seen, you sound like a lucky man! It's too bad that these remarkable things are not enough. But what do I know, I am just another one of us chasing an empty pursuit. Best of luck to you!

This is a joke, right? Ryan, you must be trying reverse psychology on us; possibly you are in need of some upgrades to your personal philosophy. If you want money, try getting a job; if you want recognition, do something to improve the world; if you want chicks, hang your underwear out of your pants and wear your hat backwards and crooked. If existentialist problems are getting you down, try reading One Must Imagine Sisyphus Happy by Albert Camus. The dude was pretty sharp.

u guys are hilarious. i could never give up climbing, i like this website too much.

i especially agree w Jason Kaplan about the brotherhood and instant trust achieved by even just one day sharing a rope. you learn more about somebody while climbing together for an afternoon than 4 years of college parties.

btw, going back to the addiction later this afternoon:)

Ryan Kane wrote:u guys are hilarious. i could never give up climbing, i like this website too much. i especially agree w Jason Kaplan about the brotherhood and instant trust achieved by even just one day sharing a rope. you learn more about somebody while climbing together for an afternoon than 4 years of college parties. btw, going back to the addiction later this afternoon:)

Thank you. I could smell this troll from a mile away.

Boy do I have egg on my face! You're so clever!

Total troll, but I'll bite.

1. V10 in your biking shoes... good one, I shoulda stopped reading right there.

2. They'll always be someone better than you at everything, period. Deal with it.

3. No money, finish line, future, glory, blah, blah, blah. Heh, sorta funny, but not really. I climb (as do most of my friends) FOR these reasons. I don't want an arbitrary finish line, I don't want fame, fortune. I want a wilderness experience, where me and my partner/s, (or solo) test my skills, and experience that I've gained over time.

4. No 5.14 climbers here huh??? That's interesting I know a few of them. Not to mention Jack R., (who has responded to this thread), Malcolm Daly, ALPINE LEGENDS, famous in my book. How about the plethora of 5.13 TRAD climbers that frequent here, Andy J., J Anderson, J Edle (sp??) and too many others to name.

Ryan, get back on your meds, stop whining, and lets go climb.

Ryan, you are pretty witty! You'd fit right in to the Vegas crowd with your fun personality, and sense of humor! You've cracked me up a few times before on this site. Good job!

I think everyone (except my climbing partner) should quit climbing; I'll never have to wait for another route or climb under someone (except my climbing partner) again.

You're onto something here, Ryan.

Although I'm not terribly psyched about you stealing the thunder from my East v West thread. :)

--Marc

Edit: I love the way you started the thread, BTW:

Ryan Kane wrote:My name is Ryan and I been off the rock for 3 weeks.

Ryan Kane wrote:My name is Ryan and I been off the rock for 3 weeks.

I guess this is what happens when you stop smoking crack...

OP Wrote: "I just wish there was a more socially friendly finish line with a bunch of hot groupies waiting at the top of the crag."

The socially friendly finish line gets crossed once you've finished climbing for the day and not died.

The hot groupies ARE waiting at the top of the crag(and the base, and on the approach trail and around the campfire). They just might not be waiting for you!

So Ryan has posted an intentional troll? What happened to the thread profundity engendered by the posting of one's "real name?"

Thanks for warning me Ryan - I will quit climbing right now....

The reason I love climbing so much is because it is an empty pursuit. Or is it? It is meaningless and really pretty stupid compared to valuable pursuits such as finding a cure for cancer or even competing in a sport where monetary rewards are forthcoming.
In fact, I find climbing hard to equal when it comes to ridiculous, dumb sports.
However, there is much to be said for hedonistic pleasure.
For me, climbing is a cheap substitute for expensive psychological therapy and antidepressants (never been diagnosed with a need for such, but you know what I mean). It is a remedy for the day to day work life and contrived existance in the city/office that ten thousand years of evolution certainly did not prepare us for.
Excercise is a good thing too.
The friendships that come from climbing are unequaled.
I would trust my climbing partners a lot more than some family members, neighbors, or friends from other activities.
What other sport takes you to natures most beautiful environments?
Gyms obviously don't count.
It is the king of activities, with its sole purpose being the pleasure of the participant.