Updated Point System

We're planning on updating our point allocation system so that it better rewards contributions that help us reach our goal: the highest quality route database on the net.

The old system gave a fixed number of points to areas, routes, photos, and comments. The new system gives a "base" amount of points for areas, routes, and photos, and "bonus" points when users rate those things as excellent or useful. You lose points when users rate them poorly. Comments no longer receive any points.

Hopefully this will better encourage high-quality content.

And here are the results

Notice they are the same numbers, sorted two ways: once by the old point totals (mirrors the live site), and once by the new point totals.

Comments are welcome.

What about people that vote their own contributions to be great? Seems like the new system would promote this weak practice.

We track votes by users, and easily skip them, so that won't be a problem. BTW, I'm purposefully leaving some details vague to discourage people from trying to mess around.

What about voting anonymously from many different computers. I want my credit score to go back up. And what if you have OCD, and vote, and re-vote on different computers.

Don't worry baby, I'll vote you back up.

Wouldn't it also be fun to do community implosions to bad contributions, like we do in Vegas.

I love MP!

It would be nice to see what people rated poorly so it could be removed by the user or at least updated with a better description or clearer photo ect..

I think it is a mistake to exclude all comments from the point allocations. Some of the comments below a route description provide better information that the original posting, i.e., FA info, approach and location data.

Is there a way to sort out comments that provide something of value from those that say "killer route" or "this was way tough for a 10a".

Maybe not...just a thought.

Ouch... I went from 1900 to 1000.

I knew I was overvalued.

:)

Deaun Schovajsa wrote:I think it is a mistake to exclude all comments from the point allocations. Some of the comments below a route description provide better information that the original posting, i.e., FA info, approach and location data. Is there a way to sort out comments that provide something of value from those that say "killer route" or "this was way tough for a 10a". Maybe not...just a thought.

I agree with you on your main "point". I can think of at least three examples right now (which I won't post 'cuz I don't want to slam anyone) where this is the case: The posted route description is terrible, but somebody has posted a high-quality pitch-by-pitch description in the comments. I think that's definitely point-worthy. I know NOTHING about how this would be distinguished from the "SANDBAG!!1" and "scary move above the 5th bolt" type comments, or if it's really hard to do, etc... or perhaps a way for the description posted in comments to replace the original one?

No points for comments?! How am I ever going to win Miss Congeniality? :)

Are personal photo albums with not so great in quality, or not so useful photos on a users home page discouraged? Would you prefer users to have a link to their personal website instead?

Anyway, I don't think (most) MP users would have a problem with administrators re-writing, or submitting a better route description. As far as stuff voted "poor" or "average", "useful" or "not-so-useful" , the user should be informed via e-mail to give them the option to delete, edit or replace it themselves first.

Lastly, do more than a small handful of users actually give a hoot about points. If they did they'd buy a better camera, post less pictures of their dogs,non-climbing girlfriends, and boyfriends climbing, take better poser pictures, and get their points up so they can win a prize to feel more accepted by their on-line climbing community. Maybe you should have photo, and/or route description contests with prizes. That'll be fun.

Gigette Miller wrote:Are personal photo albums with not so great in quality, or not so useful photos on a users home page discouraged? Would you prefer users to have a link to their personal website instead? Anyway, I don't think (most) MP users would have a problem with administrators re-writing, or submitting a better route description. As far as stuff voted "poor" or "average", "useful" or "not-so-useful" , the user should be informed via e-mail to give them the option to delete, edit or replace it themselves first.

(See my above comment.) e-mails and all that would be nice but wouldn't it be easier if like the "Great stuff" tab we had a "This stuff sucks" tab that would only be visible to the user. That way he/she could look at it on occasion and fix/better their contributions. I for one don't need more emails. Anyway we would get feed back would be cool, I guess it comes down to what is more feasible for the MP admins.
Also, in some areas poor contributions are better than no contributions.

Oops, who has time to read through all this? : )
Sorry, Joey. Great idea!

PS, I'd rather see average pictures of people, their family, and dogs happy, and having fun out climbing than poser pictures of a 5.9 that's angled to look like a 5.12 that some people would tend to vote "great." And the useless, but funny photos, I won't even go there; they have their place on-line.

I'm going to vote more from here on out.

Bltzo, you are still #1!

G

Useful comments should be kept as good stuff -- frankly, I could give a rats fat ass about points. Though I would like to see negatives on my stuff so I could pull it, post something else, etc. Some pics I put up just to contribute something to the site when it first came about as mp.com, not to mention some of my pics don't have anything to do with climbing other than personal fun stuff; course, now there is Blitzo & his amazing photos.

I see the spray/back & forth over who's climbing on who's 1/2 rope route as forum issues; how pages of crap remain on the actual route database is a problem.

What was that term Tony B. used, spraytabase? or something to that effect.

Also, either system relies heavily on photos. I think unique topos, accurate route descriptions, original FAs, should be worth far more. I mean a grade III (or higher), FA account, with an original topo & pics should count more than it does -- I mean that's artwork to me.

Is the site still enjoyable to use & participate? I think so, hell I'm on this site enough; but one big reason I was told the site has problems is with the route descriptions & back/forth comments. Is there any way to select only those comments on a route description desired so as to print out the beta a climber needs?

Just because something is voted negatively doesn't mean that much. It may have been voted poor, or not-useful by a climber that needs move by move beta otherwise they'd get lost. Or maybe by someone who can be grumpy before the morning coffee takes effect, or by a user that's jealous of his, or her co-user, or by a stalker that feels rejected, or by someone who forgot to put on their glasses, and thought the photo was terribly blurry, and so on. If you don't allow anonymous votes to count, then votes would count more, because you can better track your registered offenders/users every move/vote.

PS, in the end, the landlords can do whatever the heck they want. This site is great! Keep up the good work!

G

At the bottom of the list... jon.moab with -1.

What do you have to do to get negative points??

If you want negative points from registered offenders like me, then start posing with name brand climbing clothes, and give me step-by-step descriptions of routes to take the adventure out of it. Real hand-dogging, and flailing on a 5.6, and supersizable butt shots will earn extra points.

Damn, I gotta get off this computer, and head out to get some Alien Jerky; seriously, it's in Baker, Ca. next to the World's Tallest Thermometer. I'd take a photo of it, and post it as beta, but....... : )

I've been posing for years, but I still don't have negative points. And if big butt shots received negative points, there'd be a lot of users below zero!

I'm thinkin' you've got to really piss off one of the site administrators. Posting photos of them hangdogging or yarding on some pro, something like that.

It's a little weird, but probably good in the end. There will probably be ways for users to "overrate" their stuff by either creating multiple accounts or using different computers, but...

C'mon, if your point total is that important to you then maybe you need the value that you get out of elevating your points.

I think that doing this will, in the end, ensure that there is a focus on quality on Mountain Project, rather than a focus on quantity. I'd like to see that.

Cheers,
Nate

Is this where I redeem points for a plane ticket? a free camping pass? a national parks pass?