Wasteland rap anchor?

There I was with my 50 meter rope...
Just a heads up, someone has taken the slings and rappel rings from the last rappel to the ground on the Wasteland! Unfortunately, I didn't have the equipment to replace the station.
I'm curious... why would one do this and would they like to explain their actions on this forum?

JF

They do things like that because they are cheap, selfish SOBs. You know, the same dick wads who takes hangers from bolted climbs. A pox on all of the. May they rap off their ropes a fall 100 feet.

Greg:

It's like going out to Bobcat Boulder to find the hangers missing when you want to teach some one. Or topping out and finding the belay anchors stolen. I mean, how much are some bolt hangers going to cost? What irks me is people not caring about the consequences of their actions. Karma is circular, I've always said. Just remember, don't take what isn't yours and every one remains happier!

So now we have to drag a welder and chains up with us to set rap anchors just to keep people from carting stuff off?

Greg wrote: 50m rope? Do they still make those things?? :-)

Yep, regardless of the popularity in longer ropes, 50 meters (imo) is still the standard length. Last time I looked, it states it right on the package as well... "50mtr std".

In around twenty five years of climbing I think 60 meters of rope would have been nice on a few occasions. Doesn't make sense to me to carry and drag around a bunch of extra rope for "a few occasions". (Don't get me started on the 70 meter thing). Most of the older classic trad routes were probably done with a 40 meter rope. That was the length of my first rope. That gives ya an idea of how old and crusty I really am. I think the last time I tried to buy a set of 50 meter half ropes direct from PMI, the rep called me a dinosaur...ouch!

Here's a preemptive reply for the next post... Yes, longer ropes are great for sport climbing (thread and lower climbs), Can't climb em, too hard for me. Gotta top out!

Believe me, that's not about all I got on that!

JF

George Perkins wrote:Isn't the last rappel with an anchor through a tunnel in the rock? Like it says in Kerrys guide When we did this rappel in December, there was no webbing at this point. I figured that was just the way it was supposed to be-- thread the rope through the tunnel-- it pulled ok. I'm surprised nobody spoke up about this until now if this is not the way it was supposed to be.

That's my recollection of the last rap too (and it's been a while). There was webbing in the tunnel, but we added our own sling, which we rapped off of. Certainly those things aren't meant to be left in perpetuity.

I understand your basic gripe about monkeying with fixed rap anchors (where they're necessary), but that doesn't relieve us of a being self reliant when necessary.

Greg wrote: Just ribbing you about the 50m, Jeff. :) The best length is actually an 84m rope from what I've seen. Amazing how many old school long routes can be done and rapped with that length. Maybe that's the 40m ropes coming into play...

Yeah, I can't wait till they start selling 100 meter ropes, then I can get two ropes for the price of one.

George,
Yes, those slings are suppose to be there, just as the slings on the trees are... these have been the standard rappel stations for around fifteen years. The answer to your last question is....(insert your answer on your next post, mine's a bit harsh).

JF

I remember the last rap being from a tree about 70 feet above the start. It is smooth polished rock with a layer of fine sand...very slippery, right above that tree. I've done Wastleand three times and never rapped off the rock tunnel, because the tree had numerous slings around it.

George,

I was just stating some facts about the rappel anchor for future parties and the culprits who took down the anchor. I was not attacking you personally and would like to apologize if my comments came across that way. You did the right thing... descended safely!
I appreciate your comments and input. I personally will replace the anchor on my next visit.

JF

Perhaps with two ropes you could get to the ground from the tree, it's well over 100 feet to the ground from there. From that tree, a single 50 meter rope will just barely make it to the last rappel anchor (80 feet), which is the tunnel with the threaded slings and rap rings.

JF

Greg:

Yes, long ago we carried two 11mm x 50m ropes. Big, heavy, fat. And I didn't have a chalk bag then either. My first harness was a Whillans which we were afraid to fall in because a strap went right up in front of your manly package. A real potential ouch situation. Thankfully we have the modern era. I now own a 9.5mm...you'd think I was a sport climber. HA HA!

We used the tree about a year ago for the final rap. The Wasteland is such a fine climb. One of my favorites.

I second that. Thanks for keeping things safe down there!

Ok, it's good to see this thread get back on track. We've certainly established that it's just plain wrong to remove rappel anchors/webbing from a route...not sure if it warrants wishing somebody to rap off the ends of their ropes so they fall 100 feet, but I digress.

One thing that has gone unanswered so far is whether or not threading the rope directly through the tunnel on Wasteland - specifically on Wasteland - is OK. Clearly, we know that threading the rope directly through the tunnel can be done safely and we can say with some surety that erosion of the rock will be minimal, so aside from it being outside the norm and perhaps causing slightly faster wear to ropes, is there any reason to place webbing on the tunnel? Could this be a chance to minimize our impact further?

Jason Hundhausen wrote:We've certainly established that it's just plain wrong to remove rappel anchors/webbing from a route...

I don't think you have.

When we did Wasteland (our first and only time), we took two 60m ropes. Hence, was no need to stop at those additional rappel stations, which would be just for convenience. I honestly don't recall much about the rappel, except, we did end up near the base and I remember seeing the bolted line up there to the left of Wasteland.

I almost (!) never venture onto terrain I'm not familiar with without a few tied slings to leave as rappel anchors. I'd think that would be standard for folks doing routes especially like Wasteland. Wouldn't expect a nest of slings to rap from, either, especially if someone was doing a clean up and removing unsightly webbing (and maybe that was the reason?).

I recharge my slings every season from a standard multi pitch route here. Folks haven't learned the walk off, so, I remove their unnecessary leftovers.

Maybe someone thought the rap anchor was unnecessary? Maybe it was damaged and they thought best to remove before someone gets hurt on it?

But, two ropes and a small selection of sling or tied cord, and maybe a rapide or two, is something I'd think backcountry climbers would always have with them.

That, and a "standard" 60m rope. Ha ha.

I wonder if you can rappel from the tree to the ground with a single 60m rope? If so, maybe someone thought that the rap anchor close to the ground was unnecessary?

-Brian in SLC

You can definitely rap from the last tree to the ground with a 60 meter rope.

I just climbed the route last week and one member of my party removed a single piece of webbing from the tunnel in question while rapping by on two 60's. It is my opinion that it would be safe to thread a rope through this tunnel without risking any damage either during rappel or in the process of pulling the rope. That being said, the sling was a bright blue eye sore on an otherwise clean expanse of rock. In general I would frown upon the removal of established and necessary fixed rappel stations. However, in this case, IMO, there was no need for the fixed anchor to be there. Nature had already fixed the rappel for whomever chose to use it. In the current climate of closures and regulations, it would seem most prudent for us to minimize the visual impact of our sport.

Cheers, Stu

This has raised an interesting issue. Do climbers have an ethical duty to bring a long or two longer ropes to minimize the blight of intermediate rap anchors for those who only want to bother trailing one shorter rope? To be frank, I think the answer is yes.

Fat Dad wrote:This has raised an interesting issue. Do climbers have an ethical duty to bring a long or two longer ropes to minimize the blight of intermediate rap anchors for those who only want to bother trailing one shorter rope? To be frank, I think the answer is yes.

This situation may be precluded by just bringing one 60m rope...

Part of my logic in carrying two 60m ropes was as much for the potential of needing the extra cord if for some reason we either needed to bail or had some other type of "incident". The route traverses a tad and it would be pretty handy to have an extra rope in a number of places, for example, if a follower fell and got fubar'd on especially one of the traversing pitches. Kinda looks like no man's land out to the climber's right a bit.

Just seems like a good idear to me, but, I don't always follow that logic either...