best way to build endurance

i'm wondering what other people have found to be the best way for them to build endurance (in their forearms). currently i've taken to doing laps around the climbing gym and bouldering afterward. that way i am able to practice movement technique as well as building endurance, and it's fun enough to keep me motivated. any other ideas?

What really helped for me was tons of top ropes in a session.
On 35 ft routes id try and do 30 every time i went (around 1000ft).
The same route repeated 3 times in a row with no rest. Then rest and repeat 10 times!

Maurice Liddy wrote:What really helped for me was tons of top ropes in a session. On 35 ft routes id try and do 30 every time i went (around 1000ft). The same route repeated 3 times in a row with no rest. Then rest and repeat 10 times!

At what level of difficulty; i.e. relative to your own ability, was the route real easy, kind of easy, moderate, desperate, etc.

Thought I would get this forum re-started after the holidays. For building endurance I think you will have more success if you start with the bouldering then end with the laps. Once you have tapped your muscle reserves you will most likely see a big decrease in your power. As a result you may train poor form with the bouldering. So warm up with the bouldering then do several 20 minute laps around the base of the wall.

Another way to build forearm endurance is to downclimb the routes in the gym, basically doubling the time spent on the wall. For starters use all the holds available, then build into upclimbing a hard route and downclimbing something easier. Autobelayers are great for this type of training.

Richard Radcliffe wrote: At what level of difficulty; i.e. relative to your own ability, was the route real easy, kind of easy, moderate, desperate, etc.

I could climb 12- first or second go, so for the laps I would try and do no easier than 5.9. So tons of 5.9s, 5.10's and only a few 11s as they would tire me out quicker. Hopefully that helps..

A bud just told me that a good gym workout is to lead climb a grade that is at your limit or just beyond over and over w/o rest between laps until you fall. I haven't tried this yet though.

Good stuff here.

I'd agree with Maurice's guideline of doing endurance at 2 or 3 full grades below what you are leading. For me, 15 minutes of doing autobelay laps (continuous climbing including down-climbing) means more like 3 grades down. And climb by feel so as not to get pumped out at all, but more like worn out and sweating like I've been running. If I start feeling pumped I switch to an easier route, "cheat" off route, or even find a rest spot and shake out. That level down is also, for me, where I can climb fast but smoothly and in control -- really helped my movement and technique at the same time.

For me, traversing in the gym is usually too hard - there's always a blank spot somewhere that breaks my rhythm.

[jfox: that workout of climbing a grade ABOVE lead level seems strange to me. Laps a grade above lead level = flameout in minutes for me. Maybe I'm not understanding right.]

12 ounce curls.

Jon,

There seem to be two distinct schools of thought on this subject. The first being that aerobic climbing builds endurance. The second is that power trumps endurance training - the theory being that when the moves aren't hard for you, then you won't over-exert and get pumped.

I can't say for sure if one is better than the other, but I know that a fair amount of overall aerobic fitness and sufficient power will up your chances of sticking that crux hold when you are pumped out of your head from the last thirty moves.

And don't discount the important fact that superior technique, mental fortitude, and intelligent pacing play a very important role in succeeding or failing on a route.

The way that I train for power endurance on the rock is to find a route in the canyon that is about one or two grades lower than what I'm comfortable leading, then do six to ten self-belayed TR laps with five minute rests in between laps.

To train general endurance outside, I'll find an easy route (for me 5.7 - 5.9) and do laps w/o rests for 30-60 minutes, depending on how I'm feeling.

I've got a backyard wall and garage wall that I can use for endurance training too. I usually like to do 30-45 minute sets, with a day or two rest in between. I know that I lot of trainers say that if you're training for general endurance, you can train again in 24 hours. If you're very disciplined about not training into a fatigue state, you can definitely train for general endurance 4 or 5 times a week. Again, this wholly depends on being extremely careful about quiting when you need to quit.

Another thing to consider about mixing power and endurance training is that training for power (bouldering & hard routes) should always be done before training for endurance. You can always add endurance to power, but you'll never be able to add power once you've exhausted your endurance. ALWAYS TRAIN POWER FIRST!!!

I've never found that advice on exact rest times or number of laps, etc. has been very helpful. What is most important is to listen to how your body feels and not train to the point of fatigue.

The best advice for any type of training is to quit when you still feel strong. If you go beyond that point, its going to extend out your recovery time, and potentially send you into a fatigued state.

Hope this helps!!!

One of my old favorites is where you gym boulder with a partner. Your buddy uses a stick to dictate the next move: "Left hand here, right foot there"; and it includes whacks for drooping. The goal is to exceed your limits by at least 10 additional moves, you'd be surprised how much more effort a good partner can squeeze out of you. Nothing can compare to an intense workout with a like-minded partner, especially if you are familiar with the concept of supersets. That is something I dearly miss.

Ken Cangi wrote: And don't discount the important fact that superior technique, mental fortitude, and intelligent pacing play a very important role in succeeding or failing on a route.

I thought that was good enough to be in here twice.

As far as training goes you always want to start with strength and power. One thing you want to remember is strength is static and power dynamic. Weighted hangs and/or pull-ups prove quick results, as do lock-off boulder problems, dips, and campusing. Core work outs are also very important when building strength. Leg lifts, sit ups, rough sex, etc,etc. Power training involves deapoints, campusing ,bouldering, and dynos. Start by finding good feet and start on a good hold mathcing hands. Throw to different kinds of holds, jugs, slopers, crimps, etc.

Power endurance is the ability to crank at your maximum level for a longer period of time. When doing this make sure you are training on routes that have a mix of strength and power moves, and is consistent in difficulty. Your Goal is to spend 5-15 minutes on the wall or making 10-50 moves. Bouldering and redpointing work very well. Some kids I train on the team also play games seeing who can link the most problems together, and they really seem to enjoy it.

Endurance training consists of doing laps on routes or 4x4's. Say you lead hard .12's I'd do 4x4s on .10+ and .11-. Personally I include down climbs when I do 4x4's. Example, climb up then down climb is considered one. Repeat three more times.

Also hydration and rest is VERY important when training

lots of very very good stuff here. thanks to all who have contributed.

Take steroids and Human Growth Hormones like baseball players

Dave-o wrote:Take steroids and Human Growth Hormones like baseball players

Dave-o is on to something here. However I fear that steroids could be counter productive due to added bulk. Smoking crack is wonderful but wears off too quick and is hard to re-up during the day. Meth last much longer. Marijuana works for some but turns most into worthless couch potatoes. you could also work out, but why waste the effort when the same ends can be achieved with controlled substances?

Ken Cangi wrote:There seem to be two distinct schools of thought on this subject. The first being that aerobic climbing builds endurance. The second is that power trumps endurance training - the theory being that when the moves aren't hard for you, then you won't over-exert and get pumped. I can't say for sure if one is better than the other....

These should not be distinct schools of thought, they are complimentary. You should train to increase strength, so the moves feel easier, and you should also train to improve aerobic AND anaerobic endurance. It is possible to have all three at once.

Mmmmm...synergy.

Mike Anderson wrote: These should not be distinct schools of thought, they are complimentary. You should train to increase strength, so the moves feel easier, and you should also train to improve aerobic AND anaerobic endurance. It is possible to have all three at once. Mmmmm...synergy.

I agree, and if you read my post carefully, that's pretty much what I said - mental and technical training included in that synergy. I especially feel that good overall cardiovascular fitness will increase performance in most athletic endeavors.

Jon,
Once or twice I week, when the weather is good, I traverse a stone wall that is part of the First Christ Jesus Baptist Church near my neighborhood. I visit the wall for about an hour and try to stay on as long as I can. The moves are not too difficult at the beginning, yet range in the low 5.11 area towards the center. Once or twice a week is usually what it takes to silence the demons and blow out my forearms.

Also. Don't take training too seriously. I've popped pulleys in my fingers more than once while climbing/training. Some of the best climbing that I have done was after an injury when I returned to the rock several months later. I am not a strong climber by any means, yet, I have managed to pull myself up some incredible routes.

Instead of focusing on training, focus on climbing as much as you can. I also recommend bouldering as that is a fun way to stay in shape. I routinely traverse the Nautilus Wall at Morrison until I can't climb any longer, usually at the end of a session.

My last bit of advice. Don't get caught up in the numbers game like I used to do. Find routes that inspire and motivate you. Sometimes chasing higher grades may take the fun out of climbing.

I think if you are climbing outside, it's useful to "warm-down" on routes you have relatively dialed. The more pitches you can get in a day, the more your fitness will increase. Even though the routes might not be that hard for you, you will be trying hard because of the energy you probably lost throughout the day. Learning how to manage the pump is almost as valuable as increasing endurance in the first place.

Jay Knower wrote:Learning how to manage the pump is almost as valuable as increasing endurance in the first place.

I would say that, at a certin point, managing the pump (mental training) is more important to success. Even when you're super fit, you will fail if you haven't trained yourself to mentally work through the burn.