Safer Ice Leading

On Oct. 27th, while ice and mixed climbing, a friend of mine came very close to experiencing a life changing accident. As he re-lead a mixed line, he fell 25 ft to the horizontal ice where his belayer was standing. Thanks only to luck and a very attentive belayer he narrowly missed massive bodily trauma and or death.
He re-lead a climb that I had previously led. It is a mixed climb that can be protected with gear, but in this case I had only placed ice screws. About 20 min had passed between sends. When my friend fell he was on an over-hang about 3 feet above the screw. The first screw to him (which was drawn with a shock absorbing screamer that partially deployed) pulled. The second screw (the first one placed), which also was drawn with a screamer, held. That screamer also partially deployed.
Ice screws are not meant to be trusted 100%, even with shock absorbing draws. I had 90% confidence that the screw would have held me during the first lead. Our theory is that during the time past between leads the screw conducted enough heat to wallow out the surrounding ice just enough to weaken the thread grip.
This is a theory that we were all familiar with prior to this incident. Our complacency that day was almost fatal. We are lucky that we now have an incident that will stick with us and always remind us that when it comes to safety precautions in climbing, seriousness and thoroughness is absolutely necessary. New screws should have been placed and rock gear should have been implamented. I am just glad I did not loose a good friend that day and he is still here to benefit from our shared lesson.

Daniel,

Thanks for relating this incident. It is a good reminder to us all to PAY ATTENTION.

Depending on conditions screws will either freeze in or melt out. Either situation can happen quickly. Glad you and your partner are all right! Sounds scary!

Thanks for posting this, as said before it is a good reminder of what can happen. A few questions though... Was the screw placed at a +, or - angle. Also, did the screw just pull out, or fracture ice below?
Glad your friend is ok.

The screw was at a slight down angle. There was mnimal fracturing of the ice.

I did the same thing (sort of) using ice screws to top rope on a littel ice crag in Vermont.

After about an hour, the screws were completely melted out, sitting in little holes full of water. Only supporting the climbers weight because they were slightly angled back. Scary.

Now I try to cover the hanger of ice screws with a mound of snow/ice when using them top rope and at anchors too if it works out that way.

Kirra wrote:Hi Daniel ~thanks for sharing your story and I'm thankful your partner was o.k. Can you please elaborate upon a few details so I can also learn? ..."Ice screws are not meant to be trusted 100%, even with shock absorbing draws. I had 90% confidence that the screw would have held me during the first lead." Sure no gear is 100% but considering 'perfect placement circumstances' it is supposed to be very close and is tested & rated for such purposes. Ice screws are considered to do a pretty good job if placed correctly (this discussion on mp before). With the understanding that falling on ice is also "not an option" -etc..etc..I have the following questions: ..."Our theory is that during the time past between leads the screw conducted enough heat to wallow out the surrounding ice just enough to weaken the thread grip." Can you explain how you came to this theory? (with regards to possible change in air temp, current direction of sun/sun exposure, slight downward direction of screw (that pulled) etc., combination of all of the above or..? ) I was taught that screws should be placed at horizontal to bulk of ice flow or slightly a +. Do you think this alone could have been a factor as the slight downward pull loaded the screw closest to your partner? ...or was this screw under the overhanging area adding to angle of the screw and the possible loading of that screw..? ..."This is a theory that we were all familiar with prior to this incident. Our complacency that day was almost fatal." Your theory referring to "time past between leads the screw conducted enough heat". Time alone does not generate heat unless there are also other occuring factors involved. I'm not trying to call you out or mince your words and apologize if I am misunderstanding. Just trying here to understand climbing on ice with regards to the dynamic medium that it is, always changing and challenging to understand as the elements change around it (and thus effect safety). Quite different than rock which tends to remain somewhat solid (excluding rockfall, etc.). Thanks so much in advance. Have a safe season everybody..! p.s. The new BD Screws have silver hangers now instead of black which I was told absorb less heat. Taught to pack ice also and cover screw (especially if doing TR), but still check frequently depending upon temp & sun expos etc.

Kirra, try and give Daniel a little breathing room, instead of interrogating him. I think you can find your answers available in the literature.

Hey Kirra,
I appreciate your questions, but let me preface my attempt to answer them with this. If I were you I would not take any advice given by me or any other person as gospel. I would refer any questions about safety and placement technique to the manufacturer’s directions or a verifiably qualified instructor.

The day we were out was fairly warm. I don’t remember there being any direct sunlight on the screw, but I believe the ambient air temperature could have been high enough to focus heat on a metal screw to the point of melting and or weakening the surrounding ice.

I was taught that ice screws should be placed horizontal to bulk or slightly -, a slight + can sheer the ice, and the strength of the screw is in the threads. Once again I am not an expert, and this is only the theory in which I choose to subscribe. The screw was in vertical ice. The overhang I mentioned was rock.

I know you are just trying to get as much info as possible, but let me say I did not post this anecdote as a technical guide. It was meant as a reminder to think carefully about how you protect ice while leading, and that it is probably not a good idea to lead on pre-placed ice screws. Like trad placements there is a margin of error that should not be taken lightly. Even if you trust the person who has placed the gear completely, a cam or nut can shift, and a screw can melt out or have been poorly placed to begin with.
I hope I answered you questions sufficiently.

From what I understand optimal placement of an ice screw would be in solid ice and placed at a slight downward angle of 10-15 degrees. Ice screws placed properly in good ice can and will hold a fall. On sport leads rock/ice I will usually check the rock pro before I clip and on ice I will usually remove and replace the screw. Glad everything worked out. Thanks for the heads up Daniel.

Josh Darnell

Joshua Darnell wrote: Ice screws placed properly in good ice can and will hold a fall.

not all the time. its never a good idea to take a whipper on a screw.

Kris Landell wrote: not all the time. its never a good idea to take a whipper on a screw.

A properly placed screw in good ice will hold a fall. A properly placed screw in bad ice may not. Your protection is only as good as the ice it is placed in. I have been witness to a few significant leader falls onto a screw. One first hand. All screws were 17 cm or longer and were placed in good ice, at a slight downward angle and all of the screws held. Now I'm not suggesting that anyone run out to their nearest ice route and whip off onto a screw. I'm just saying trust yourself and trust the equipment. Let me add that none of those screws had a screamer when they were loaded.

'Screws me' for asking questions that I couldn't find addressed Avery. I read it, several times and there was NO mention of temperature or other items I asked unles it was added later. Note, I apologized in advanced but I still get reamed. Sorry again for wasting everyones time. I have deleated my worthless questions as Avery has already quoted so as not to take up any more valuable space in this thread. I will take up my future conversations in person with folks that know how to share and assist others without critizing or bashing blindlessly.

In case ya'll want to keep reaming, I won't be returning to view. PM if anyone has anything 'positive' to discuss and was able to asertain the time I spent in carefully typing my post. Every time I get reamed on this site, it's amazing how much more email I get from folks who truly have good things to say.

Ream away, Take care of yerselves anyway. Peace all & Peace out~

There was an article in Climbing I believe last winter, or the winter before were someone went to Ouray and tested ice screw placements by chucking a dummy off the edge. It was actually scientific with known fall factors. Great article to rest this case. I am too lazy to go through my old mags, I am sure that you can contact Rock & Ice or Climbing for the back issue. I do remember from that article that placing a screw in a 10 degree downward angle was the best placement. The explanation was that the threads of the screw hold the fall, not the ice around the screw. Placing a screw in an upward position can leverage a screw downward and cause the ice around the screw to fail. Personally if I placed a screw in ice where I believe it would melt out due to heating up, I would consider myself soloing. Since ice is such a varying medium, sometimes from moment to moment, it would be hard to comment on this event. However I was climbing last Monday in my shorts and T-shirt and perfectly warm. I am really surprised that there is any ice climbing at all. One of my long time partners fell of a mixed climb in Hylite Canyon outside of Bozeman. He shattered both ankles to basically powder, broke both legs above his boot line and hyperextended his back severely. He did not even hit the ground, he hit the vertical ice on the way down and caught his crampons. So far it has been a year of pain and physical therapy. His ice climbing days have probably come to an end as well as his ability to lead climbs without the possibility of never being able to walk again if he falls and lands on his feet. He had years of climbing ahead of him that ended in a fraction of a second. "Careful with that axe Eugene"

try visiting the following site:

www.strikerescue.com

the previously mentioned research is posted there.

The main conclusions of Beverly & Attaway's (2006) Dynamic Shock Loading Evaluation of Ice Screws, are: (a) when ice screws are placed properly into solid, good ice, ice screws can hold falls remarkably well; (b) recognizing and using good ice is a matter of experience and judgment. IMNSHO, and as a professional researcher, its an excellent study. Its a rigorous scientific inquiry into an important question (i.e. under what conditions do ice screw hold falls and under what conditions do they fail?) and its conclusions are surprising and informative.

(disclaimer follows)
I know the authors. Marc especially is a friend of mine. However, knowing these two clow... I mean these two gentlemen gives me even more confidence that the study is well done and the conclusions warranted.

Peace in (I'm home tonight...)
Jerome