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Black Flower
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YDS: 5.8+ French: 5b Ewbanks: 16 UIAA: VI- ZA: 15 British: HVS 4c

Type:  Sport, 1 pitch, 40'
Original:  YDS: 5.8+ French: 5b Ewbanks: 16 UIAA: VI- ZA: 15 British: HVS 4c [details]
Page Views: 495
Submitted By: Benjamin Chapman on Feb 20, 2017

You & This Route  |  Other Opinions (2)
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Black Face is the left-most route a Black Flower.
Make an awkward boulder move to a pocket and the 1st bolt. Continue up and trending to the right past four bolts to the anchor.


Left-most route.


4 bolts.

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By David Carrera
Mar 16, 2017

Please stop renaming other people's routes.
Please stop posting other people's routes.
Thank you.
By David Carrera
Mar 21, 2017

Please stop renaming other people's routes.
Please stop posting other people's routes.
By Mike Womack
From: Los Angeles, CA
Apr 14, 2017

David, is this your route then? I'm sure that posting your own routes would help ensure no one else renames or modifies your routes. Just a thought..
By BigNobody
From: all over, mostly Utah
Apr 18, 2017

Way to contribute to the hypocrisy then Jay, err, Benji...
By David Carrera
Apr 18, 2017

Ben, the posting, editing, and deleting, posting, editing, deleting makes it hard to keep up, but there’s two issues here: renaming people’s routes, and threatening access.

On the first topic, you and I have gone over this many times. I thought we had an understanding and mutual respect. I respect your decision to do whatever you want with your routes, why is it so difficult to respect my decision?

On the topic of access, you’ve almost gotten how many areas shut down now? Three? I believe it’s 3, but whatever, I don’t believe you want to jeopardize access, but you out of anybody should be sensitive to the issue. Keeping some vulnerable areas underutilized and non-publicized might be a good thing. Even larger areas are not immune to the pressure that comes with popularity. For instance, you’ve complained quite a bit about all the trash, poop, fires, and guiding that goes on at TC, but you’re the #1 guy that is responsible for bringing all those people that left the trash, poop, had fires, etc. Yes Blackflower is in Louie’s guidebook (just like TC was in the guidebook but had little use until it was popularized online). It was also in Steve Edwards Ventura guidebook before that. There is a big difference between an area being in a guidebook and advertising it. It’s been a known climbing area for a long time. Posting and promoting it online increases impacts exponentially. Plus, you do know land managers look at this stuff on the internet don’t you?

You seem like a nice guy in person, maybe you and I need to go climbing together. Maybe if we get to know each other and talk we might avoid more of this BS in the future. I can’t promise that I’m that fun to be around but at least we can discuss this stuff in person and hopefully end up with a better understanding of where the other guy is coming from. What do you say?

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