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Routes in Lost T

CB Love Grannys T 5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a PG13
Coach and Mary T,TR 5.7 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b
Courtney Marie's Boobies T 5.10b/c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b PG13
Crimps Are For Pimps T 5.11- 6c 22 VIII+ 22 E3 5c R
Dike, The T 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Emily Doesn't Have a Clue T 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Expiration 66 T 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Fat People Are Harder To Kidnap T 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Five Star Crack T 5.8- 5b 16 VI- 14 VS 4c
Flavor of the Day S 5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a
Freckles and No Lipstick T 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Keegans 5.8 T 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Keyhole, The T 5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c PG13
Little Kisses T 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Mean Sister T,TR 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Parthenope T 5.11a/b 6c 23 VIII- 23 E3 5c PG13
Spelunking Midget T 5.10a/b 6a+ 19 VI+ 19 E2 5b
Ten B T 5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c
Unnamed T 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b
Waiting for the Sun T 5.5 4b 13 IV+ 11 MS 4a
Wide Crack T 5.7 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b
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Type: Trad, TR, 70 ft, Grade V
FA: Lost T team
Page Views: 748 total · 26/month
Shared By: Gary C Thomann on Jul 17, 2016
Admins: Jim Lawyer

You & This Route

12 Opinions

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Starts about 10 ft left of Coach and Mary and goes over the roof at start. This is the route the bolt was chopped on. Bolt has been replaced. Stick clip the bolt, pull over roof and continue up crack. Crux is 3/4 of the way up and crack runs out and you have to move about 3 ft right into adjacent crack. Very nice route.


Look for the roof left of Coach and Mary.


Gear up to about 1 inch. Anchors at top.


MaxSuffering   KVNY
Having led it before the bolt was replaced I cannot imagine why fixed gear is necessary on this route. Bomber gear at the start as I remember. I'd be interested to hear from Gary why he feels this bolt is needed.

ADK Rock lists this as 5.10b, Gray's own guide says .10… but it's given .9+ here? Jul 18, 2016
Having led the route without the bolt and with it, I think that the route is better with it. It is true that gear is available near the bolt, but it has to be placed mid-crux with the risk of a ledge fall if you blow it. This makes the route safe for 5.11 leaders and hazardous to 9+/10- leaders, which is at odds with the style in which this cliff was developed (and may I add, the development of this cliff entailed a ton of hard work and scrubbing that neither you nor I participated in). In any case, nitpicking route-developers for judgement calls that err on the side of safety is misguided. Jul 25, 2016
MaxSuffering   KVNY
J. Nickel, you're entitled to your opinion but I respectfully disagree that without the bolt this route is hazardous for a COMPETENT 5.10a leader. I know of at least one climber who's max lead level is around that grade who had no trouble protecting it adequately (and she's about 5'2" so it's not a reach issue). If you read the above description you'll note that the bolt does not protect the crux of the route. You can call me misguided if you like but my opinion is that this bolt is a serious mar on an otherwise excellent pure crack line.

In this thread:… Gary even admits he "made a bad mistake" by placing a bolt here so my question is why would he double down on that mistake by replacing it?

I've done my share of scrubbing and cleaning and you're right, developing routes IS a lot of hard work, which is a good reason to make sure you do it right. In my mind that involves not putting in fixed hardware which is completely unnecessary. I've always said people can establish their routes however they want but should be prepared to accept both the praise AND criticism they get for their decisions. Jul 25, 2016
Gary C Thomann
Gary C Thomann  
When I mentioned making a mistake on a bolt it was not this first one on Mean Sister. There were a couple of other bolts nearby that I should never have put in and I admit it. They got chopped and at the same time the first Mean Sister bolt got it too. Considering the climbing style Lost T was developed for I think the bolt very appropriate, so we put it back in last summer. Of course others may not agree.

Remember, everybody makes mistakes. On every cliff we developed there are routes where at the end I thought - "I wish I hadn't done that." Each route seems to require a hundred decisions, particularly when bolts are involved. We mark with chalk, climb the route, move the mark, climb some more, and still sometimes put the bolt in the wrong place. There was a mistake on Parthenope that Bill and I made, resulting in an extra bolt. In any case, I have seen a lot of people having fun at Lost T and I am very proud to have been part of it. Mar 4, 2017
Thanks Gary for all you did. Oct 2, 2017
Excellent route. Stick clipped the bolt. I thought any gear that could be had before the bolt would be shallow and questionable. Wouldn't want to fall on it. Excellent route, even with the stick clip. Oct 2, 2017
I removed the side pull/jug right above the initial roof today, it wiggled when I grabbed it, and a few shakes was all it took to come out. We worked it without the hold, and it still goes, just at more like 10b/c than 9+/10a/b; the start is probably the crux now, not the crack switch above. Jun 22, 2018
Gary C Thomann
Gary C Thomann  
That was a real nice jug! At my age I was having trouble getting over the roof with the jug, so I guess I have no chance now. But things do change and thank you for removing something loose and possibly dangerous. I will look at the route the next time I am at Lost T. Jun 23, 2018
Nolan Huther
Potsdam, NY
Nolan Huther   Potsdam, NY
I'll confirm that the start is about 5.10b/c if you go at it the right way. It relents to moderate fingercracks afterwards Aug 10, 2018

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