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Routes in South Side

B-52 T 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Bamboozled T 5.7 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b
Bat's Ass T 5.10+ 6b+ 21 VII+ 20 E3 5b
Bloody Crack T 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Catch Me Now I'm Falling T 5.9+ 5c 17 VI 17 E1 5a R
Chaos Out of Control T 5.10c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b
Dinkus Dog T 5.10a/b 6a+ 19 VI+ 19 E2 5b
Enigma, The T 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Fat Dog T 5.7 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b
First Return T 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Gemini Crack T 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Good Intentions T 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b
Left Up T 5.7+ 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b
Legacy, The T 5.10d 6b+ 21 VII+ 21 E3 5b
Lichen or Not T 5.5 4b 13 IV+ 11 MS 4a
Mettle Detector T 5.12c 7b+ 27 IX- 27 E6 6b
Parachute Woman T 5.10d 6b+ 21 VII+ 21 E3 5b
Rat's Ass T 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Right Up T 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Second Coming T 5.7 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b
Sentry Box Ledge Direct T,TR 5.9+ 5c 17 VI 17 E1 5a PG13
Short Man's Sorrow T 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b
Slug, The T 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Southender T 5.8- 5b 16 VI- 14 VS 4c
Unfinished Concerto T 5.9+ 5c 17 VI 17 E1 5a
Windwalker T 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a PG13
Zodiac T 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Unsorted Routes:
Type: Trad, 200 ft, 2 pitches
FA: Jeff Lorch, Karsten Delap, December 2015
Page Views: 1,819 total, 74/month
Shared By: Karsten Delap on Dec 13, 2015
Admins: Ryan Williams, Aaron Parlier, Steve Lineberry

You & This Route


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Description

The route goes directly up from the Sentry Box Ledge Rappel rings. Start on small crimpers to a flake that provides some bad protection. Move past the flake on some small crips and smears to a delicate move into an eyebrow under cling. Once you establish your feet paddle up to belay at the bulge on ring anchors. From the bulge stand carefully on the flake and move up through eyebrows that are a bit run out. Join First Return and head to the rappel station.

(edit March 27, 2016) The route now has 2 bolts and a set of anchors for a much more appealing and safe adventure.

Rappel with one 70m rope.

Location

The route starts directly off the rings on Sentry Box Ledge between First Return and Gemini.

Protection

smaller cams to #2 BD. Offsets could be helpful.

Photos

Are you claiming that your guide service does not use the (so called) Legacy anchors to TR a variation of Gemeni off of Sentry Box Ledge?

#2 I don't live in AZ

#3 I've climbed there plenty. Actually I learned to climb there. Long before your pathetic excuse for a guide service was around Aug 25, 2017
Not to jump in the middle of this, but I can confirm this new anchor does not affect First Return or Gemini Crack. It could not be used for top roping First Return.

The nice thing is, you can now rap from the top with one rope. This anchor is perfectly plumb on the rappel line at halfway. It's always nice climbing with one rope if possible. Aug 2, 2017
Karsten Delap
North Carolina
 
Karsten Delap   North Carolina
 
The bolts are not close to Gemini. You would know this if you had climbed it, but of course you live in AZ. In fact, if you would traverse to the bolts you would miss the good climbing on Gemini.

No the bolts don't help the guide services in anyway. However they do help the rescue teams as now folks don't call for a rescue when they only have one rope.

I guess they do help traffic as it is much more efficient for folks to get down now as you only need one rope.

And yes, Ron was actually going to put the route up with me but he had to leave and we never got too.

I have only put the bolts and anchors in once. The community keeps putting them back up when folks who don't care about our resources continue to chop them.

Cheers John! May 1, 2017
First off this is not a new route. I know it was climbed in the mid 90's. Either way adding a set of anchor bolts to an existing route is wrong. The anchor you added is right on Gemini Cracks. The anchor is also being used to TR First Return now too.

I'm guessing that these new TR anchors make it easier for your guide service to operate there?

Since you brought up Ron the AAC education director... are you claiming that the AAC is in support of this? Didn't Ron work for you? Seems like a huge conflict of interest

Another thing that you pointed out is that the "community" keeps removing (chopping) your retro bolts. It's funny you don't seem to get that Apr 7, 2017
Karsten Delap
North Carolina
 
Karsten Delap   North Carolina
 
and one more thing, I have only put the bolts up once, the community keeps putting them back. So not my doing, but of course always appreciated. Mar 23, 2017
Karsten Delap
North Carolina
 
Karsten Delap   North Carolina
 
John,

I actually new the route had been TR'ed. And I have the guide book pic from Bryan Haslam as well as a conversation where he also said it had been TR'ed but never lead and "that if I did lead it, it was mine". I also lead it with out the bolts first. I posted it, it was up for 4 months on here before I put the bolts on the route and the anchors. No comments, radio silence. Then I put bolts in and Drew comes out of the wood work. I actually have a comment of where Drew didn't even know the route when I posted it before putting bolts on it and his comment was "looks like a squeeze job".

I also didn't grade the Route, but got a consensus on that as well before posting.

I also talked very long with Ron Funderburke (The AAC education director) about doing this route, how to go about it, if it was in NC "style", he just wasn't available the day I went to do the first free ascent.

I am sorry if you feel that NC has some sort of ethic. All I have seen in my 15 years here is talk about ethic. To me, if you have drilled a hole in this stone, you can not preach ethic, as you have already brought the climbing down to your level, so you must now not judge others.

If you would like to meet up sometime let me know. I would love to have a beer and a longer conversation.

Cheers,

Karsten Delap Mar 23, 2017
The real legacy of North Carolina climbing is a tradition ground up ethic.

In this case a known route (it's even listed in the old guide as a TR) was rehearsed on top rope, retro bolted on rappel, and over graded... everything about this route is wrong. Right down to the name which is an insult to the history of North Carolina climbing. Mar 20, 2017
i think that the route and the top rope anchors will eventually be removed for a final time but it may take a year or more of processing. I have promised the CCC that I would not remove them again myself and I also am concerned about defacing the rock at this point. The most important take away from this is that we DO NOT embrace so called top-down technique - I have climbed other routes in NC that were established this way and the bolts are all wrong (Manatee Fluid at LK is a good example - Manatee was originally led ground up by Mike Fischesser and crew in the 80s but when we did the LK re-bolting, the bolts were removed and put back in top down in an effort to get them better - - now they are somewhat weird and don't coordinate with natural stances (still a great route) but the point is that top down is not some sort of way in which to improve what we have in NC). Ground up FAs should be the gold standard at LG and throughout WNC. Mar 19, 2017
Like I already told you... This is not a new route.

Calling everyone who disagrees with your bullshit claim of it being a FA a liar is pathetically weak but I understand that it's your only defense...

I see you dodged the question about the retro bolts. Most people start to figure it out after their bolts get the chop but apparently not you... Mar 14, 2017
The first day I saw this route photo posted I commented that I had climbed it - historically it was listed as a TR - in Thomas Kelly's old guidebook - I'm pretty sure that I led it with John McRae (Crusty) and or Jason Strickland who works for Osprey Packs. I also led it with some Camp Pinnacle kids in the late 90s or early 00s. I am not sure why K.D. did not believe me that the line had been led by me and by others before me. He certainly did not get real community consensus for this by talking to people such as Bryan Haslam, Harrison Shull, etc. Why he re-installed (or had the bolts reinstalled) is at best un-clear - the top anchor is truly a convenience anchor - for many many years we have successfully used the station (tree and now bolts) at the top of the mountain. This new anchor primarily is used for top-roping and I feel that that's why he put it there. He is very very defensive about this. I have not climbed with John Kelly in a long long time but he is the real deal by the way. Mar 13, 2017
Karsten Delap
North Carolina
 
Karsten Delap   North Carolina
 
John,
I have chatted with Jeep before the bolts were ever put up. Jeep said he didn't climb the route. I also checked with many others. No one climbed this route on lead. Those that are saying they did (mainly Drew) could never have done it. I even have a statement from him saying that he thought it was a squeeze job, hence he hasn't climbed the route.
But yes even i climbed the route on TR many times. Mar 3, 2017
How is this a new route? Jeep climbed it in the 80's and it was also led a few times in the 90's. What's up with the retro bolts on it? Haven't they been chopped and replaced a few times? Usually people start to get a clue when their bolts get chopped but apparently not in this case. Feb 21, 2017
Karsten Delap
North Carolina
 
Karsten Delap   North Carolina
 
Bruce, you can rap with a single 60m rope. It is tight though and one should have knots at the end. A single 70m gives you plenty!

Hope you like the route! Apr 19, 2016
With the addition of this new anchor, can you now rap from the standard south side rap station in 3 single rope raps? Apr 13, 2016
Travis Weil
Brevard, NC
  5.10d
Travis Weil   Brevard, NC
  5.10d
This route is fun and engaging. With the bolts it is a fairly safe lead but they are spaced enough that you need to keep your head. The crux section has some fun technical face/slab climbing that you may need to figure out your sequence. Apr 2, 2016