[Hide Comment] This is the true weakness of the wall and on top of that a really nice problem. Good conditions are nice. Nov 4, 2011

[Hide Comment] So how is this different from Velvet hammer it looks like you are just going to the first hold with the other hand? please advise. Nov 10, 2011

[Hide Comment] Hey Dobbe. When I did velvet I went right hand to the edge and it forced me to topout left.. felt like the easiest way at the time. A couple other guys did it going left hand and it's feels more natural to topout via alpine club. Really cool move. Could just be alpine club with really good beta I suppose.. Nov 11, 2011

[Hide Comment]
Challenge complete.

Red=Alpine Club - V9
Pink=Alpine Club Sit (Fight Club) - V10
Purple=Velvet Hammer - V8
Blue left=Velvet Hammer Sit - V9/10
Green=Hammer Club - V7/8
Yellow=Hammer Club Sit - V9
Orange=Rapture - V9
Brown=Rapture Super Sit (project) - V11?
White=Rapture Sit (project) - V10?
Blue right=Arete Problem (unnamed) - V3 Nov 12, 2011

[Hide Comment] So this is not a problem. Stop posting this kind of junk. If Velvet Hammer is it's own line then all this is is cleaning up the bad beta used to send it the first time. Lots of problems are found to go easier after more people get on them. You don't call it it's own problem so you can say you got an FA. Nov 12, 2011

[Hide Comment] Bravo Jeremy, it's true art. To the forums!

mountainproject.com/v/how-d… Nov 12, 2011

[Hide Comment] My opinions:

1. I have found that it is quite common in bouldering to have several variations on a boulder. Every area I have been to seems to embrace sit-starts and line divergence to make separate quality problems.
2. Devil’s Lake is the real deal for bouldering. I have had the opportunity to travel all over the country sampling popular destinations. From my experience Devil’s Lake has some of the highest quality problems anywhere, and there is a ton of rock here. I think it is justifiable to have a bouldering guide as thick as the Bible. There are that many great problems or potential problems out there, let’s encourage everyone to participate in establishing these lines and keeping them clean.
3. Why not encourage everyone to help with establishing new problems. I see much more good than harm coming from this practice. If the only criticism of adding lines is that a visiting climber may be disappointed, is this really a valid concern? Has this ever happened? Do you really think a climber would be disappointed with the lake?
4. Who is to decide what is a line, a quality line, or a legitimate boulder problem? This is no criticism of Dobbe, I like his problems, but he is guilty of participating in the same practice he is condemning: mountainproject.com/v/press…, mountainproject.com/v/two-t…
5. Mountain Project should be a place to add creatively to the climbing resource. Let’s embrace this instead of discourage it. Better to put up with a couple of half-ass boulder problems (let the consensus decide this) than dissuade climbers from contributing.
6. I personally really enjoy the variants that are going up at the lake. I live very far from the gym and appreciate all the new routes going up at the lake. Something new goes up every week and I am always psyched to get out. Very rarely have I been disappointed by any routes and I have found that some of my disappointments have been other peoples’ favorites. Who’s to say. Nov 14, 2011

[Hide Comment] Given that it doesn't seem like I will ever be good enough to do alpine club proper, this is a pretty fun option. In this case this sequence is actually alpine club with better beta (depending on your strengths), but it wasn't done first so....this is the game we play. Oct 25, 2015

[Hide Comment] I think you nailed it Brian... This one is much easier for me than the proper alpine club.. Oct 26, 2015