[Hide Comment] The grade on this is nothing but a proposition, and it is meant to be honest when compared to other crack climbs around the U.S. Matt Segal checked out the line before I did the FA and he told me he felt that it was solid 14, so it might even be on the stiff side. I was going to call it 13+, but after hearing what Matt thought I decided to split the difference. Repeats will help settle the grade, up or down. For me, the one time I TR'd it, I felt like it was equivalent to a power endurance V11, and putting in the gear on lead adds quite a bit to the diffculty in my opinion.

I also want to extend a big public thanks to all the people who I goaded into belaying me on this thing on various occasions. Without your guys support I would not have been able to do this. These people are Jesse Brown, Rob Pheres, Jeremy Medley, Brian Scoggins, Tim Long, Jose Riofrio, Josh Helke, Bob Scarpelli, Julian Pouche, Patrick Kingsbury, Bjorn Kruse, Chris Veniegas and Vanessa Cassat (I hope that is everyone). I especially want to thank Jesse Brown and Rob Phares because more than anyone else they both had to be bored to tears from watching me fail on this. Each of them pushed up on the other end of my rope for a ridiculous number of attempts. Aug 29, 2009

[Hide Comment] Holy jeebus! Nice freakin' job, Justin. Aug 29, 2009

[Hide Comment] Congrats, Justin! Aug 31, 2009

[Hide Comment] Nice job! this might be a stupid question.... what's Z4? Aug 31, 2009

[Hide Comment] Speaking of crazy hard cracks, now that you have done this one: there is a steep splitter down by Curt Gowdy State Park, south side of Happy Jack highway, new piton driven in at the base - a nice traverse boulder problem nearby - do you know which line I am talking about?

Has anyone done this thing yet? Sep 1, 2009

[Hide Comment] A Z4 is the smallest piece I've ever placed as legitimate protection. I have the Z3, and I've only placed it once, and didn't climb above it.

I do recall that first day you got a rope on this thing and aided between moves. And especially when that piece blew on you unexpectedly. Because I was staring off into space when you fell and it took me quite by surprise. I also remember a few other trips when I thought you would send. Good work Justin! Sep 1, 2009

[Hide Comment] No idea what the property ownership is, nor do I have any hope of even trying this thing, looked way too hard. Just walked by it and thought "there's a 5.14 crack". Great job on your send! Sep 2, 2009

[Hide Comment] Proud send, Justin! It's got me psyched for this weekend up there! Sep 4, 2009

[Hide Comment] Congrats, Justin! I've walked by that crack and pictures don't do it much justice. Sep 4, 2009

[Hide Comment] It was a pleasure to be a slave to such a wonderful project, plus I got to boulder at Coyote and polish off the area classics! It was fun. I know you will find a new kick ass project soon to drag me out, too!
P.S your name selection for this route Rocks!!! Nov 4, 2009

[Hide Comment] Looks like "Jammer" has added yet another overrated and self aggrandizing send to a long list of personal back slappers. Tell me "Jammer" what happened to "some guy" sending this one? And how does it compare to Andy Johnson's masterpiece "Bloodletting" at Reynolds? Congrats. Nov 25, 2009

[Hide Comment] So Handsome, I was just wondering what you thought of this overrated and self aggrandizing climb, more specifically? When you climbed it, what was it you didn't like? Did the movement not work for you or was the grade a little softer than you thought it should be? Since this is now the hardest trad line in Wyoming (so far) it would be awesome if you could give us some more insight into why you did/did not like it when you climbed it. Problems of this grade will draw people to the area and your feedback will help other climbers figure out whether or not this climb is worth the trip. Thanks! Nov 26, 2009

[Hide Comment] I didn't like the way the light hit it. Nov 27, 2009

[Hide Comment] 30 feet of climbing is plenty in Vedawoo. Plenty. Jun 21, 2010

[Hide Comment] This route is not as straightforward nor as easy as it looks from the ground. Even standing at the opening moves it looks 5.11 honestly. Initially there's a nice, tight-hands/off-fingers crack with a bit of a slab below it. So you think, what's the big deal, I'll just walk my feet along the slab. If you have a 4 year old child, this would be sick beta.

This route is a lot of fun and big props to Justin again for sending. I did not send it, so at the moment, I'll decline to rate it, but I will say it was more fun to climb on it than hate on it on this website. Hell, it was even more fun to climb it than put this post as well :) Jul 5, 2010

[Hide Comment] To the people who are knockin Justin's beautiful new line. For the record, what's the hardest line in the Voo you've sent? All I can say is, if you lap Squat for fun, you have the right to comment on the rating of this climb. If not, go clip some bolts. Jul 11, 2010

[Hide Comment] As a relatively new crack climber, I feel like even getting on something into the 5.10 range makes you more bad ass than probably 99 percent of the world, and at Vedauwoo where I have gotten on a 5.6 that was slightly overhanging for a few moves, 5.14 probably climbs like 5.15d in Boulder Canyon. Nov 3, 2010

[Hide Comment] Justin . . . I hate to break this to you, but I did this crack back in 2001 with only three spoons and an old fork with broken tines as makeshift protection, using an old laundry line as a rope, wearing two left shoes, and without chalk or tape. I rated it 5.8+ because it felt a number grade easier than Lower Progressive. I also scrawled "Eat Me Whore" at the crux with a can of spray paint (like I do on all my FAs), so I'm surprised you didn't know it had already been done. Scarpelli belayed me, so he can verify all this. He'll remember it because it's the same day we stumbled on a couple kids from Colorado committing necrophilia on a deer carcass at the base of Legal Eagle . . . no, really, I'm serious. Jun 2, 2011

[Hide Comment] Punkencack. That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. Bravo.

I'm heading to Vedauwoo for the first time in a couple weeks and just stumbled onto this "discussion", now, my $0.02 isn't worth very much. But, it seems to me as if one can't disparage the grade on a route without having climbed it oneself. So really, there are only a few people in the world who could ever have anything meaningful to add to this discussion.

And in the end, stop bitchin' and start climbin'. I've found it makes for a happier life. Jun 12, 2011

[Hide Comment] This thing looks hard, especially for shorter individuals. Jun 20, 2011

[Hide Comment] Last week at Nautilus I met a roadtripping climber from Montreal (didn't catch his name). He was shorter than me (5'10") and said he had been working the route, calling the crux 5.13+. Jul 1, 2011

[Hide Comment] Third ascent. Sheesh. See above. Aug 3, 2011

[Hide Comment] All respect to Justin for the FA of this crack! I found this crack to be hand size-dependent. I got a couple of decent flared hands where Peewee had bad off-fingers, so the grade is subjective. Feb 14, 2017

[Hide Comment] Geoff, the important thing is that several climbers were strutting around citing this route specifically and an apparent downgrade of it, and the negative implications this apparently had about my character due to the apparent fact that people like yourself had done it in significantly fewer attempts or with significantly less preparation. Given you have a much more expansive list of accomplished climbs in this grade range, your choice to attach your name to Vedauwoo which implies a great deal of experience and mastery of the place, and given you had significantly better circumstances in which to work it and yet failed to get up the route in significantly fewer tries, I found the comment a bit off. That is poor style on someone's part.

As for a subjective grade on this, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree, as the crux is tips and we have the same size tips. I found the flared hands/off fingers section (either technique worked for me at about the same grade on that part) to be easy enough to be, outside of the fact that it is climbing which is precedent to the crux, largely inconsequential to the grade of the climb. The grade comes from the tips, and from the unbalanced, leaned over, and butt-out position the climb forces one into while climbing through those tips. The "slab" below the climb only really serves to put your body in a shit place for using the crack in that it forces you into pulling straight out on the jams (so you can't sag below them) and has the effect of making whatever jam you need to reach to effectively further away than it otherwise would be (i.e each jam is in about the hardest to reach place it could be), and it does not extend below the crack enough to really stand on unless you undercling the crack, which would make the climb a lot harder. Combine that with movement repetition and you have a beautifully abstract and weird climb which I can understand is confusing to grade. There is no stopper move, and it looks deceptively easy because of the fact that the whole thing has decent jams and it looks like one could stand on the "slab" the whole way. Feb 21, 2017

[Hide Comment] Interesting take B K. I have found over the years that the best preparation for Vedauwoo, judged by my ability to come right out of the gym and perform on the cracks at Vedauwoo, is actually sloper training in the gym. I think this is because of the shoulder position needed to hold onto slopers and because both slopers and flared jams rely on a very open handed hand position. I have had comparable or slightly better results from training on slopers than I have from training on overhanging, splitter cracks. As a result, the places you mention sound like excellent places to get the basic requisite strength for a place like Vedauwoo :)

Also, I laugh over the years at the ascentionists who repeatedly fall off this one particular climb for some other reason than because it is hard. For some reason their failures on this one can be explained away by referencing something other than the difficulty. It's awesome entertainment. Nov 11, 2020

[Hide Comment] Felt softer than a lot of routes of a similar grade back home in Boulder. Could have used a bolt near the finger lock, though. Dec 6, 2020