Type: Trad, Aid, 75 ft
FA: StyMingersfink
Page Views: 1,609 total · 13/month
Shared By: Stymingersfink on Aug 4, 2008
Admins: slim, Andrew Gram, Nathan Fisher, Perin Blanchard, grk10vq

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Access Issue: RAIN, WET ROCK and RAPTOR CLOSURES: The sandstone around Moab is fragile and is very easily damaged when it is wet. Also please ask and be aware of Raptor Closures in areas such as CAT WALL and RESERVOIR WALL in Indian Creek Details
Access Issue: Poop Alert! Details

Description

A thin seam off the ground, this was an early attempt to put up an aid route on sandstone that would handle some traffic over the years, without loosing it's original feel. The opening half-dozen moves are hooks, till you gain a good nut/cam crack, followed by more hooking to the anchor.

Location

IIRC, it's east of bad moki roof a good distance, look for a thin thin seam going up to an anchor situated about 15' under a medium sized roof. The first drilled hook hole, sleeved with a piece of iron pipe will clue you to the route's start.

Protection

The opening moves were originally beak placements, which were subsequently replaced with Drilled + Sleeved holes to accommodate a talon for these placements. About midway up the route, there is a couple of good .75 or #1 camalot placements, as well as the odd nut placement.

Photos

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Stymingersfink  
  A2+
Some of the discussion occurring at the time I put this route up can be found here Aug 5, 2008
This tech. of drilling, sounds a little strange to me. Maybe we (climbers) should consider not climbing in this style. I think we have moved forword from hard aid to free climbing being more important these days. Aug 5, 2008
Sam Lightner, Jr.
Lander, WY
Sam Lightner, Jr.   Lander, WY
I just got off the phone with Josh and I think he misunderstood this. These guys were just freeing an old aid line... nothing for us all to get our panties in a wad for. The line looks really good (for Potash) and when they get it cleaned up I'm gonna be first in line. Aug 5, 2008
Jay 1975
Bonedale,CO
Jay 1975   Bonedale,CO
easy, it's just climbing on wallstreet anyway. Aug 7, 2008
Stymingersfink  
  A2+
Josh wrote:This tech. of drilling, sounds a little strange to me. Maybe we (climbers) should consider not climbing in this style. I think we have moved forword from hard aid to free climbing being more important these days.
Sam Lightner, Jr. wrote:I just got off the phone with Josh and I think he misunderstood this. These guys were just freeing an old aid line... nothing for us all to get our panties in a wad for. The line looks really good (for Potash) and when they get it cleaned up I'm gonna be first in line.
No, Sam, I don't think he misunderstood this at all. You see, an aid line put up in the spring of '06 wouldn't really qualify as "old" in my book. ;) The fact that Luke was able to create his own line sharing space with mine says something for him, and I respect his ability to see and follow through with that potential he saw. However, I doubt that his line would have gone up had I not climbed my vision.



To clarify something for Josh.

When I put up the line in '06, I used beaks in an tight seam for the first 25' to a good cam placement. In cleaning the route, it became obvious to me that repeated aid ascents would blow out the seam leaving an eyesore.

To preserve the feel of the ascent, as well as the seam, I installed hook holes with a 3/8" bit and sleeved them with a short length of steel pipe seated flush with the face of the stone. This was done to allow repeated bat-hooking in the fragile sandstone, without altering the feel/appearance of the seam the climb follows.

Your assertion that climbing has moved forward from hard aid to difficult free climbing may be true for you, however this may not be true for everyone (myself included), and quite simply, the free line would not exist had I not been inspired to put up the aid line.

The fact that someone went back and put up a free line which crosses over it in several places, then relies on the anchor location that I chose to use is irrelevant. When I return to install the remainder of the line as I saw in my original vision, I highly doubt that the middle pitches will be free'd, though you are certainly free to attempt it.

Whether my technique of installing an aid line sounds strange or not, the fact of the matter is, I did it in a manner that would preserve the stone and the nature of the route, and will continue to do so in the future.

However... if you feel the need to critique my line or the manner in which I installed it, please lead it before you begin to spray. Only then will your comments have any weight with me.

Got Sack? Climb on. Sep 6, 2008
Sam Lightner, Jr.
Lander, WY
Sam Lightner, Jr.   Lander, WY
Stym... what the hell are you talking about?
I have no idea how you could take what I wrote as a critique of you and your methods.
I believe aid lines are absolutely legitimate. I do it all the time and know that aid is the means to getting up 90% of the most proud lines in the world when they were first done.
I didn't know 06 was the year, but so what... old was just a guess cus I never see anyone aiding on Potash anymore.
FYI, the line doesn't cross over it a few times... it follows it.
What spray... I simply tried to diffuse an arguement before it blew up. As I understand it, you gave Luke permission to add some bolts. Why the hell would you do that if you want the aid line to remain as it was... and how the hell is anyone else supposed to repeat it as you did it, but still not use pins.
And I dont know if I "got sack", but I can't help but feel that your response here is trying to say you do and others don't.
Also, good for you for taking a stand against leaving an "eyesore"... on a wall that was accessed via a land filled road that was chizzled from the stone in many places. Next time you might think about putting in a brown chain anchor instead of webbing if you want it to hide better. Sep 7, 2008
Stymingersfink  
  A2+
My response was more geared toward Josh...

and as far as the anchors went, I installed with what I had, I'm glad Luke upgraded it in the manner which he did. The aid line can still be climbed in the manner which I intended.. hooks to gear to more hooks.

As far as his free line following it goes, I would have to say not quite. The line I took would be impossible to free, as it was nothing more than a tight seam for the majority of the route. I've since had the opportunity to check out their work, and it looks good. It looks to trend left up some featured face, where they've installed a bolt well off the aid line itself, then crosses to the only natural gear features to be found on the route. Where they went from there I'd have to climb it to know, as I dint really see the other bolts they added, though I could see the chalk residue from their efforts.

:) Sep 8, 2008
Sorry didn't mean to start such a ruckus. Have fun out there and cool to see Potash still has new route potential. Sep 8, 2008
Luke Malatesta
Moab Utah
 
Luke Malatesta   Moab Utah
 
This route now goes free...there are four bolts on route and new chain anchors.. Jul 23, 2009