Swiss Miss

Downgraded to the established grade of 11a as not using all available features just seems silly. Sep 29, 2014

I disagree, there are many sport climbing areas where to earn the grade and in my opinion to do the climb you avoid using certain features or cracks. On Main wall you avoid stemming to the back wall on "Heart Shaped Box" and "Limestone Cowgirl". To me the 11a stemming way seems like the variation.

Also thanks for sorting the routes! Oct 6, 2014

Thanks for the thought provoking feedback. I avoid the back wall on Limestone Cowgirl but use it on Swiss Miss. To call one feature on while calling the other off is hypocritical and arbitrary. I suppose it is up to the individual how to approach each route.

I reverted the established grade to 5.12a. Oct 6, 2014

Definitely 12a without the back wall (or, maybe one might call it v4?). Fun route; good intro to the grade, since the crux is off the deck and the climbing up higher is easier (although still engaging and fun). Stick clip the first bolt definitely. Jul 21, 2017

stick clip the second bolt too if you're not going to stem.

to me using all available features seems like it should always be the default. if want to say a hold or feature is "off" then make that the variation, as people doing the route for the first time won't know what's "on" or "off" and will just follow the natural line.

this is actually a fairly common occurrence and i'm starting to think it would be nice if MP had some sort of split grades feature for routes like this. what we have now is very confusing as many people rate this climb 11a and many rate it 12a, leaving it consensus 11b/c which is incorrect for either variation. Apr 29, 2018

Short, sweet and hard- 11a... 11d... who cares its really fun! May 16, 2018