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Routes in Back Wall

Aid line (aka:Stoney crack) 5.10. TR 5.10 6b 20 VII- 19 E2 5b
A-Frame Right TR 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Beehive Chimney TR 5.4 4a 12 IV 10 VD 3c
Black's Crack TR 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Charles' Split TR 5.11a/b 6c 23 VIII- 23 E3 5c
Dart Lady TR 5.12 7b+ 27 VIII+ 26 E6 6b
Potholes TR 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Potholes Crack T,TR 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Potholes Traverse V1 5
Vicious TR 5.12 7b+ 27 VIII+ 26 E6 6b
Walk the Plank TR 5.12 7b+ 27 VIII+ 26 E6 6b
Wrath of Kahan, The TR 5.10+ 6b+ 21 VII+ 20 E3 5b
Type: TR, 50 ft
FA: unknown
Page Views: 2,037 total, 17/month
Shared By: Chris Owen on Nov 22, 2007
Admins: Chris Owen, jt512, M. Morley, Adam Stackhouse, Salamanizer suchoski, Justin Johnsen, Vicki Schwantes

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Up the right trending ramp to the moment of truth, very steeply up the crack to a butt ledge rest - the crux follows, a tenuous lieback to easier ground.


Two diagonal cracks form an A-Frame shape - this is the right crack.


Toprope problem (or scary lead) - boulder and cams (bolts?)


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Oak Park, CA
Sean   Oak Park, CA
absolutely, climb at Stoney only when dry. out there yesterday, after wks of 80+ and sometimes 90+ deg temps. figured dry enough

where on what climb did #10 hex break off a plate? would go have a look next time

for the record, i don't go around Stoney looking for every sketch seam or pin scar to lead. i only lead the few clean cracks, which i do enjoy now and then. those are all moderates. altho i do take lead falls, even on soft sandstone, and have done that elsewhere, i've actually never fallen or hung on gear the long time doing the occasional leads at Stoney, in btwn plenty of TRs, so that i can honestly say i've never caused any of the suggested damages, ahem, unlike you two brazen rock killers Aug 11, 2016
Chris Owen
Big Bear Lake
Chris Owen   Big Bear Lake  
Best practice is to TR when completely dry. Perhaps I should've written "placements which seem bomber" - but that's semantics no? In my case I was demo-ing a "solid" #10 Hex placement in that nice dark rock, it was a beautiful slotted piece - a 1 foot plate, 6 inches thick blew off from one side and dumped me on the ground. Aug 11, 2016
Oak Park, CA
Sean   Oak Park, CA
Guy's "bomber" placements weren't that or they wouldn't have all ripped out (no offense). i know those placements. i would never perceive them as bomber, not remotely. gear that stays put upon yank checks are only "solid" against your yanking force, which could be sustantially less than that of a big lead fall. but maybe "bomber" is used much more loosely by some

for a clearer example, have a look at Pothole Crack. the only way rock will "blow" would be for the entire left pillar with the potholes to topple over and away from the main wall. none of us weighs that much to impart that kind of explosive force onto the cams and onto the rock Aug 11, 2016
Chris Owen
Big Bear Lake
Chris Owen   Big Bear Lake  
If you lead them it will be at your own risk - even bomber placements (see Guy's post) will almost certainly blow. There's not a big tradition of leading here. The climbs are forever changing - it's the only certainty at Stoney Point. So best practice is to TR when completely dry. Aug 11, 2016
Oak Park, CA
Sean   Oak Park, CA
don't know about the idea of this, or say Pothole Crack, or Freeway Crack shouldn't be led bec of the rock. they're all quite distinct crack lines, with massive dihedral faces to either side. these aren't like say Sculpture's Crack, where rock chunks could get blown out by fall catching pro in intermittent suspect crevices. on the upper dihedral of A-Frame Right, ripping out a cam would scratch away some surface grains, not that different than at other sandstone locales. Gibraltar in Santa Barbara has soft sandstone. Lieback Annie, T-Crack, and The Nose now not to be led as well? i too led A-Frame Right a long time ago. didn't fall, but remember a critical orange Alien quite well. none of the pro in that upper slanting dihedral crack is bomber, and that orange Alien was the best of them. am saying this as someone who had ripped out a few tiny cams in sandstone cracks out at RR and Indian Creek. for small cams, esp green Aliens and tinier, even if they feel solid on yank checks, they aren't necessarily so. can understand saying not to lead A-Frame Right bec of marginal pro that might not stay put, that it's too inadequately protected a lead for some or for many. just thought the notion of not leading soft sandstone cracks at all is interesting, not looking to argue with any of you. thoughtful discourse welcome Aug 10, 2016
Guy Keesee
Moorpark, CA
Guy Keesee   Moorpark, CA
Don't lead this .... The stone is quite soft. Way back in the day... I tried to and fell at crux.. Pulled 3 bomber placements and decked. One of the better TRs at Stoney Jan 7, 2016
Chris Owen
Big Bear Lake
Chris Owen   Big Bear Lake  
I'm fairly certain that a lead fall from the lieback on small cams would be an equipment failure scenario. I've led the route and did not trust the small cams I placed at all. Apr 29, 2015
I started climbing at Stoney Point in 1963, and this route has always been one of the all-time great TR climbs in the area. Back then there would be ropes hanging off this, Pothole Crack, Black Crack, Beethoven's all day long, every weekend. This route had a lot of theater due to the swing one would see in a fail. Athletic, cryptic and insecure, A-Frame always gets your attention, and there is a certain "3-D" nature to the movement and hold distribution. Apr 27, 2015
Agoura, CA
TheNags   Agoura, CA
Can be protected using some medium passive pro and BD cams up to 1. Mainly using some smaller (.3-.5) cams to protect the layback. Sep 19, 2012
Be sure to take two hangers and nuts for the 10 mm metric bolts on top May 27, 2009