Type: Sport
FA: Bill Leventhal, Matt Oliphant, Mike Draper
Page Views: 5,001 total · 35/month
Shared By: Art Morimitsu on Feb 21, 2007
Admins: jt512, M. Morley, Adam Stackhouse, Salamanizer suchoski, Justin Johnsen, Vicki Schwantes

You & This Route

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Shares the same start as Letterbox, climb the arete to a large hueco and past it to a slightly less than vertical face. Pumpy, overhanging moves.


On the arete, shared start with Letterbox


Bolts Anchor


redlands, ca
veritus   redlands, ca
Can anyone confirm a broken hold halfway up? this route doesn't feel like 5.11a/b and isn't consistent with the routes surrounding it. Mar 30, 2007
Art Morimitsu
Huntington Beach, Ca
Art Morimitsu   Huntington Beach, Ca
My understanding is that a hold broke off above the big Hueco on the right side of the arete (on the Mr Big face). The last time I did this route it felt more like 11b/c. Mar 30, 2007
andy patterson
Carpinteria, CA
andy patterson   Carpinteria, CA  
I also noticed a discrepancy between the guidebook grade and the actual grade. I would venture a grade of 5.11c, as it felt a little harder than Letterbox, which is in the 5.11b/c ballpark. Whatever the grade, however, it was good fun. Aug 26, 2007
Colin Parker
Idyllwild, CA
Colin Parker   Idyllwild, CA  
Sent this on top-rope on Saturday. The crux definitely felt like a v3 boulder problem, for sure. 5.11b/c Jun 23, 2009
It's a bit silly to gripe about a letter grade up or down; but that being said, this route feels substantially harder than Letterbox does, at least for me. Your mileage may vary. (Yes, sent both.) Apr 11, 2010
Sherman Oaks, CA
Jimippa   Sherman Oaks, CA
I head "the nipple" broke off... if that's the case, the rating will start rising... Apr 11, 2010
Joi-Bobby Laos
Los Angeles, CA
Joi-Bobby Laos   Los Angeles, CA
i was just on this route this passed wkend and just so no one else is surprised as i was, bring two extra draws w/you for the top anchors because the permanente ones have rusted permanently shut. Apr 11, 2011
Simon H
Oakland, CA
Simon H   Oakland, CA
This route sports new looking stainless biners at the top, definitely an upgrade from the rusted out old ones.

I felt this was harder than 5.11b Sep 23, 2011
Mike Womack
Los Angeles, CA
Mike Womack   Los Angeles, CA
Something might have broken off about 6 months ago again...? It felt significantly harder than last time I was on it around '10. I think the route is probably 11b/c, however the 3rd clip is very difficult to make now meaning there's a good chance of a nasty fall onto the boulder below. Maybe pre-set the 3rd bolt with a long draw?? Dec 19, 2017