Type: Trad, 210 ft, 2 pitches
FA: Dave Ingalls, Al Rubin, Richie Petrowich, 1968
Page Views: 9,017 total · 60/month
Shared By: Tabo on Oct 3, 2006
Admins: JSH

You & This Route

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A beautiful three-star route next to Annie Oh!, Limelight, and Arrow.

P1: 80 feet of classic climbing. The guide says to start on either side of large block; the right side seems easier. Wander up the face above, passing one roof by a notch on its left then moving right under the next small roof. Make a few cruxy moves up the face above, then follow low angle climbing back left to the belay ledge. Use one of several big trees to belay.

P2: 80'. More great climbing! From the tree, follow the path of least resistance to a ledge with a smaller tree ~40 feet up and left. There's not much pro if you go straight up (but it's more fun!); otherwise, head right and then back left for easier terrain and better pro. You'll find a nice move just below a pin, then a couple of thin moves after the pin to a nice rest, under the roof. Traverse right , then up the diagonal crack/notch to the chain anchor. This pitch wanders a lot - beware of rope drag!

The 2nd pitch has some great moves -- it's one of the nicest pitches at the Gunks.

Rappel: Two 60m ropes get you within a few feet of the ground (with stretch - watch the ends). Alternatively, a single rap brings you down to the first pitch tree, and will keep you out of the way of other climbers.


Location: About 14 minutes down the carriage road, the carriage road turns gently right where a river of white rocks meet the road.


Standard Gunks rack. Rated PG; several solid 5.8+ moves above a fixed pin of uncertain reliability.

The pin on P2 has good gear several feet below it, and can be backed up with a small micronut.


Morrison, CO
Monomaniac   Morrison, CO  
P.1 is nothin special, but p.2 is excellent, intricate face-climbing on stellar white quartzite. Jun 14, 2009
The rock at the Gunks is not quartzite, it's quartz conglomerate.
But it is pretty and white ;-) Jul 22, 2009

The pin on P2 seems ok to me, it's fairly sheltered by the roof above it.

P2 is one of those where you have to carefully consider the balance between rope drag, and protecting your 2nd. If you place a piece below the roof and sling it too long, your second will be unprotected at the crux, and will only have one chance at doing it. Doubles help with this. Jul 24, 2009
Just did this the other day for the first time since 1978. It seemed to be one of the easier 5.8s I have done this year. Ratings are strange. Oct 16, 2009
#3 BD Micro Nut also backs up the 2nd pitch pin. Couldn't get my other nuts in. Astro Nuts or HBs may work too. Aug 22, 2011
Little brassie works well there. Aug 24, 2011
lin murphy
lin murphy   boulder
before the 2nd pitch pin, I put in a #2 blue master pro cam = green alien. Might have slowed me down.

I also agree that the Gunks are classified as a quartz conglomerate, a sedimentary rather than a metamorphic rock. But, some areas, like around Arrow, seem to be micro crystalline quartz, which suggests metamorphism. I have not researched this, but believe that what may have happened is that the quartz from the sand grains and pebbles went into solution and later precipitated as micro crystalline quartz, like chalcedony or jasper. This could have happened without the entire cliff being metamorphosed.

That is why the rock is so glassy and smooth, like quartzite, e.g, Unita climbing NE of SLC.
We also noticed on Disneyland that there are faulted glassy surfaces, slickensides, between the horizontal layers. So there has been some movement horizontally between the layers that causes glassy surfaces. Nov 28, 2011
Larry S
Easton, PA
Larry S   Easton, PA
Weird crux pro beta - rather than a micronut, a BD #10 sideways locks in a few inches below the pin. Yeah, the one side is only half making contact, but it's pretty solid. I tried a #1 DMM peanut and it was too big for that seam. Mar 29, 2013
Montreal, Quebec
Luc-514   Montreal, Quebec  
If you're climbing with doubles and want to protect your second on P2 you can clip your left rope to a #.75 with a runner and exit the rest of the route on your right rope. You can then walk left on the ledge where you'll find a chockstoned crack to set a directional above the crux. Oct 26, 2013
Andy Weinmann
Silver Spring, MD
  5.8+ PG13
Andy Weinmann   Silver Spring, MD
  5.8+ PG13
I really don't like to trust pins from only a little bit of outward appearances. You have no clue how deep it's set or the condition beyond what you can see. I equalized the pin here with a #3 Stopper just below it. Sounds like a brassie would've worked too. After this pro there's nothing till the roof...which is a decent little ways up there. A fun route that is challenging both physically and from a rigging standpoint for the second. Doubles would def help. If you're unsure of your second's ability to follow, def follow Luc's advice and place a piece as soon as you hit the roof...straight up from the pin. Nov 4, 2013
Logan Schiff
Brooklyn, NY
Logan Schiff   Brooklyn, NY
Did this recently finishing out left on the Hawkeye roof. It's a little burly but does not increase the difficulty much (5.8+ or maybe 5.9) and adds a fun traverse and roof move that is well protected with a 3 or ideally a 4 c4. I see no reason not to finish this way as you get almost all the best parts of Three Doves with some added fun. You do need to build a gear anchor or walk up quite far to a tree. May 27, 2014
Robert Hall
North Conway, NH
Robert Hall   North Conway, NH  
Re' the P2 pin, on the face: If it hasn't been replaced it probably should be as it is a short-thin Lost Arrow, placed on the 2nd or 3rd ascent in 1968. Oct 28, 2015
  5.9- PG13
  5.9- PG13
If Friends and Lovers is 5.9R, then this is at least PG13. Good fun (but committing).
(I would agree with the Gunks App rating recommendation 5.9-) Sep 19, 2016
artem Vasilyev
New York, NY
  5.9- R
artem Vasilyev   New York, NY
  5.9- R
If you traverse on p2 left early (like I did) on the licheny bulges, then make sure you brought your brown climbing pants.

The only gear on the slab before the thin 5.9 moves up to the pin is a 00 C3 in a shallow horizontal that if it were to pop - would take you for a bumpy ride until your next piece (.3 camalot) would catch. Also found a tiny spot for opposing aid-only brassies, but don't think those would hold a whip. Maybe my memory is faulty, or I missed something - but it was pretty damn blank.

Would call P2 R/PG13 for this small reason only. The rest of the gear is very present and bomber. Dec 7, 2017