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Routes in Hillbilly Routes

5.6 dihedral T,TR 5.6 4c 14 V 12 S 4b
Balls on a Kite T,TR 5.11 6c+ 23 VIII- 23 E4 5c
Barnyard TR 5.9- 5c 17 VI 16 HVS 4c
Bio-Degradable T,TR 5.7+ 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b
Booze Pigs S,TR 5.12b 7b 26 VIII+ 26 E5 6b
Cascadia T 5.5 4b 13 IV+ 11 MS 4a
Curse of the Drill S 5.7+ 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b
Drink to Puke T,TR 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
End of the Innocence S 5.7+ 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b
End of the Innocence variation S,TR 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Generation Gap S 5.12a 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a
Her Spidery Chamber T,TR 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
High School Romancer TR 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Left Side Dihedral (aka Corner Crack) T,TR 5.7 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b
Manic Depression S 5.11c 6c+ 24 VIII- 24 E4 6a
No Time to Linger TR 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Organic Matter TR 5.5 4b 13 IV+ 11 MS 4a
PWB Arete S 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Pagan Rituals S,TR 5.11d 7a 24 VIII 25 E5 6a
Penitent Crack T,TR 5.7 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b
Pine Tree Crack T,TR 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Repentance Crack, The T,TR 5.7 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b PG13
Sex Weed T 5.10b 6a+ 19 VII- 19 E2 5b
Strong Faith T,TR 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c PG13
Strongman's Cooldown T,TR 5.5 4b 13 IV+ 11 MS 4a
Sunset Ascent S 5.9+ 5c 17 VI 17 E1 5a
Swiss Cheese S,TR 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Turkish Revenge S,TR 5.13a 7c+ 29 IX+ 29 E6 6c
Two Hands of Prayer T,TR 5.7 5a 15 V+ 13 MVS 4b
Zig-zag crack T,TR 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Zschiesche toprope problem TR 5.12+ 7c 28 IX 27 E6 6b
Unsorted Routes:
Type: Trad, TR, 40 ft
FA: Nick Maza
Page Views: 2,249 total, 17/month
Shared By: James Schroeder on Sep 22, 2006
Admins: Doug Hemken, James Schroeder, Chris treggE

You & This Route


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Description

Good beginner route in the ledgy corner.

Protection

Standard Rack

Photos

Doorbluff
Stevens Point, WI
Doorbluff   Stevens Point, WI
Had a chance to climb this yesterday, and it was a blast. For anyone hopping on this route, there is definitely some loose rock immediately after the roof, so be aware; I cleaned as much of the loose rock as possible. Jun 7, 2017
You mentioned that one reason it shouldn't get anchors is that it's already a popular route without them. I wasn't arguing that a route that's popular should be changed only because it is popular, I was just trying to point out that from my perspective, with all other things being equal, a route that gets climbed 100 times in a year should be considered for an anchor before a route that gets climbed once a year. But like you said, popularity isn't the only factor, and honestly, with 20 ticks(obviously there's been more but still) in almost 10 years being posted on MP, it doesn't really strike me as all that popular.

The Hollow is a single pitch cragging area, and while there are both trad and sport climbs, most people come here to sport climb. This is borne out by the number of ticks on sport routes vs. trad routes. A few more anchors wouldn't be compromising the "values" of the area, or, in my opinion, the character of the climb.

Regardless of whether this route gets anchors or not, it's great that we can have the discussion here. Dec 30, 2015
Doug Hemken
Madison, WI
Doug Hemken   Madison, WI  
I assume if a route is popular that people find value in it. You argue that if a route is popular it should be altered?

To be clear, I don't think popularity (or non-popularity) is the bottom line here, just something that ought to be an additional consideration. I'm more with James, bolts here are obviously unnecessary, and the climbing community should be placing the bar higher for ourselves, especially on public land.

While we all appreciate convenience, is that also *all* we care about? Dec 29, 2015
That's assuming that everyone who climbs a route values it for the same reasons. Where you might enjoy the fact that when you get to the top there's nothing up there, others probably don't care much and would rather just clip a few draws and come down.

And yes, I think that most climbers probably would like bolted anchors everywhere. I don't personally think that, but having bolted anchors for single pitch cragging, even with easy top access, doesn't really seem that outrageous to me. Dec 29, 2015
Doug Hemken
Madison, WI
Doug Hemken   Madison, WI  
Tony, it sounds to me like you are saying: the greater the number of people who value a route as it is, the more urgently we need to change those values.

You also appear to be saying that most climbers would appreciate always having bolted anchors.

I think most climbers appreciate both sport values and trad values: the simplification and focus of sport routes, and the additional skills and judgement required for trad routes. Dec 28, 2015
Isn't the "this route is already popular without anchors" argument backwards? It seems like the more popular a route, the more it should be considered for bolted anchors.

I agree that not every route everywhere needs to have anchors, but like Andy says, two camo'd rap rings won't take anything away from the area, and ultimately would be appreciated by most people climbing the route. Dec 26, 2015
Chris treggE
Madison, WI
Chris treggE   Madison, WI  
Reading this thread:

mountainproject.com/v/the-b…

makes me glad Devil's Lake won't have the bolt safety issue come up. The aging bolts at the Dodge make me a bit nervous if I pause to think about them. If there isn't a need for bolts then perhaps best to avoid. If you build an anchor then you know exactly what you have. Dec 16, 2015
Doug Hemken
Madison, WI
Doug Hemken   Madison, WI  
I don't understand: "This would save on going to the top and building an anchor" but "Not everyone wants to climb TR"? People don't climb to the tops of climbs anymore?

The number of ticks on this route here on MP shows that this route is already popular. Altering a route on public land that already has a substantial community of users strikes me as high handed/self centered.

Putting bolts in rocks is totally appropriate in some circumstances. In my opinion, these are not those circumstances. Dec 1, 2015
Ian CB  
I figured I'd throw my two cents in here. I set up a lot of top ropes due to being a guide. I do notice that there are dead trees, frequently near the edges of cliffs. I think I'm not the only one that can put this together. While things are good now maybe this is something that will need to be addressed at some point, hopefully before it really becomes an issue. Dec 1, 2015
James Schroeder
Sauk County, WI
 
James Schroeder   Sauk County, WI  
 
Andy,

You asked for opinions, it's my opinion that those two holes are totally unnecessary. I'm all for bolting when it makes sense, but drilling holes for convenience alone on a 5.6 trad route with a forest at its top doesn't make sense to me.

Bolted anchors (whether protection, belay, rappel, or some combo) only make sense when there are limited natural protection options - that's not the case here.

Cheers,
James Dec 1, 2015
Chris treggE
Madison, WI
Chris treggE   Madison, WI  
Is the top of the cliffline eroding? Are the trees are showing signs of bark damage? One can only assume that with all this info easily obtainable online now that the traffic to this and every other area will only increase in the future... Dec 1, 2015
Not everyone wants to climb TR and this one is a great route to lead on. The rock is in great condition and would offer countless years of use without damaging trees. I agree that PTC could use one too. Two rap rings won't take anything away from the area. Dec 1, 2015
jon jugenheimer
Madison, WI
jon jugenheimer   Madison, WI  
No idea Doug, I just want to see pages of Blah Blah Blah ;) but also, I am into saving trees. Dec 1, 2015
James Schroeder
Sauk County, WI
 
James Schroeder   Sauk County, WI  
 
Trees. {plural}

A much better candidate for anchors would be Pine Tree Crack which only has one tree at the top used as a fixed, single-point anchor. If any "convenience" anchors are going to be placed at the Hollow, the first ones should be on PTC. Dec 1, 2015
Doug Hemken
Madison, WI
Doug Hemken   Madison, WI  
Jon, is that likely to happen soon? What kind of tree is it? Dec 1, 2015
jon jugenheimer
Madison, WI
jon jugenheimer   Madison, WI  
What happens when the tree dies? Nov 30, 2015
Chris treggE
Madison, WI
Chris treggE   Madison, WI  
Nice to see this kind of discourse rather than the usual bolting and subsequent chopping with 15 pages of blah blah in the forums about it. Nov 27, 2015
Doug Hemken
Madison, WI
Doug Hemken   Madison, WI  
I'd agree with James. This is an established route that already sees plenty of use. The bar for convenience anchors on public land should be set higher than this. Nov 26, 2015
James Schroeder
Sauk County, WI
 
James Schroeder   Sauk County, WI  
 
In my opinion, no, it would not be okay to add anchors. There are lots of trees at the top, and convenience isn't the end all in climbing. Nov 25, 2015
Noob question but would it be in good etiquette to install two bolts to use as a bomber anchor at the top of this route? This would save on going to the top and building an anchor if someone just wanted to session this spot. If not I completely understand as it is someone else's route. I was also thinking the same for the Corner Crack. Nov 24, 2015
Josh Olson
Durango, CO
  5.6
Josh Olson   Durango, CO
  5.6
I have led this with only hexes and a nut or two. Good route, good lead, a very intimidating roof until you find that giant Jesus jug. May 19, 2011
John W. Knoernschild
Wisconsin
  5.6
John W. Knoernschild   Wisconsin
  5.6
A nice climb. Small pro in beginning. used size 4,8 and 6 stoppers then a #2 cam after overhang. It was a bit hard to place pro to protect the overhang. I wouldn't recommend it for your first trad lead. May 18, 2008