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Routes in North Wall

An Eye For an Eye T 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Bucky's Paradise (formerly "Unknown far left") S 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a
Buddha Bukstein Crack T 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Just The Fad V-easy 3
Panacea Roof S 5.12b 7b 26 VIII+ 26 E5 6b
Remedy S 5.12- 7a+ 25 VIII+ 25 E5 6a
Turn the Other Cheek T,TR 5.8+ 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
Walk The Line T 5.10 6b 20 VII- 19 E2 5b
Type: Sport, 60 ft
FA: JJ Schlick
Page Views: 1,429 total, 11/month
Shared By: JJ Schlick on Sep 16, 2006
Admins: Doug Hemken, James Schroeder, Chris treggE

You & This Route


6 Opinions

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Description

A very nice line with two distinct cruxes. Start on scruffy rock to reach the first bolt, then out onto the main face. The first crux comes at the third bolt and is a mix of sidepulls and deadpoints. At the middle of the route soak up the rest as the top half is quite steep for WI standards. Climb jugs on the arete past two bolts. The third bolt on the arete is a hard clip and right at the begining of the second crux. Cranking on some small holds and divots will set you up for the throw. Jugs to the anchors from there.

When you are lowering off take a look at the rediculous botch job to the right. Four ugly glued holds were abandoned by their creator. Probably out of self loathing. One of these holds is close by at the crux, though I didn't use it on the FA. These holds are a good example of what not to do when route developing. There isn't even a line where they are at. It is just fucking stupid. Anyhoo, I ripped the one bolt that was over there, and whoever is responsible for this mess should be ashamed.

Location

Middle of the north wall.

Protection

Seven bolts to a two bolt chain anchor.

Photos

Tradiban
  5.12a
Tradiban  
  5.12a
Of course JJ, I'm open to all interpretations as long as there's a line of reasoning behind it. Unfortunately lots of folks don't know why they believe what they believe.

Live as you will, argue for fun, climb forever. Sep 12, 2013
JJ Schlick
Flagstaff, AZ
 
JJ Schlick   Flagstaff, AZ  
 
Well I'm not saying that everyone and their grandmother should carry a wonderbar on their rack, but crag maintenance doesn't happen by itself. In my experience there are few climbers who are actually willing to take on the list of chores that certain areas need including trail maintenance, hardware inspection/replacement, and seasonal route cleaning/maintenance. It's usually developers though not always, and I often encourage people to take an active roll in caring for their climbing resources. This often requires tools of all sorts that yes, at first might seem out of place. However, if someone's interested in lending a hand, I try to point them in the right direction.

As far as where the line is drawn, after 20 some years of putting up new routes my rule for such is pretty simple. If the hold in question flexes under finger or foot pressure, I pry it off. Not every hollow sounding hold or flake needs to go, but I've seen way to many close calls from holds breaking. The danger coming not only from the falling climber, but also from the falling "hold" depending on the size of it.

I see you talking about ethics quite a bit on MP Nick, and I guess I don't quite follow your thinking all the time. I just don't want people beliving you're speaking god's only truth just because you adhere to the "way of the crusty old trad dude". There are many "ways" to travel in this sport, and I think it's important for people to hear different sides of the story. Sep 11, 2013
Tradiban
  5.12a
Tradiban  
  5.12a
I understand prying may be a "fact of life" but where is the line drawn? My personal rule, stated elsewhere on this intellectual pit of a website is that if you can't take it off by hand, then leave it alone. Sep 9, 2013
JJ Schlick
Flagstaff, AZ
 
JJ Schlick   Flagstaff, AZ  
 
I left the glued holds because I thought it might make a bigger mess to remove them, and because I didn't really think anyone would use them.

Chris, if you are still in the area, those things might come off with a simple whack of a hammer. At this point that epoxy is probably close to twenty years old, and may have a light bond with the actual patina on the stone. Manufacturing is one thing, but those holds were fucked from the beginning and like I said, abandoned by their creator.

And Nick, pry bars are used all over in new route developing. It's a fact of life. Sep 8, 2013
Tradiban
  5.12a
Tradiban  
  5.12a
I'm not saying you were suggestion to downgrade it, I just think the route may have become contrived to avoid the glued holds at this point. It's too bad that whomever glued it didn't allow everything to follow it's natural course, that's my policy but prying something off is on par with gluing it in my mind.

Anyway I think whomever climbs this from now on can choose to climb it with or with out the glued hold as we can't erase the past on this one.

All in all a minor blemish on an otherwise great climb in a great WI satellite crag. May 18, 2012
ChrisFrayer
Platteville, Wi
5.12a
ChrisFrayer   Platteville, Wi
5.12a
I am not sure that I was suggesting a down grade to 11+.

Prying certainly has a place in route development depending upon local ethic / rock type / rock quality / etc. I can't remember exactly what the glued holds look like - though I was slightly appalled. Just trying to think of a way to 'Remedy' that colossal f-up. May 18, 2012
Tradiban
  5.12a
Tradiban  
  5.12a
That would probably create a bigger mess, lots of glue on them, it would be hard to get underneath the hold, and I sure as shit don't support prying.

Perhaps with the broken foothold this is reachy and hard without using the glued holds? Unfortunately, maybe it's better to simply include the glued holds and downgrade this to hard 11. May 18, 2012
ChrisFrayer
Platteville, Wi
5.12a
ChrisFrayer   Platteville, Wi
5.12a
When we climbed this last year we didn't use any of the glued holds either. Think big. Is it possible to pry off the glued holds? Or would that create more of a mess? May 17, 2012
Tradiban
  5.12a
Tradiban  
  5.12a
I admire your ethics. I had never been on it before the hold broke and I couldn't tell where it was but grabbing the epoxied hold seemed like the only way. Perhaps Melin was avoiding the the epoxy hold and thus it's "way harder" that way. Still on grade if using the epoxy hold. Mar 1, 2012
JJ Schlick
Flagstaff, AZ
 
JJ Schlick   Flagstaff, AZ  
 
Did the broken hold force you onto the glued stuff? I didn't need to use any of that shit on the FA. Just curious. Mar 1, 2012
Tradiban
  5.12a
Tradiban  
  5.12a
The first crux is the hardest, lay-backing off a small seam and dead-pointing for an ok hold. The upper throw isn't bad with the right holds. I got the good hold on the arete with my left, pinched the epoxy'd hold on the face and put my right foot one a nice divot near the arete.

I thought 12a but the first crux can be low percentage. Nov 8, 2011
Tradiban
  5.12a
Tradiban  
  5.12a
That is quite the throw to the finish. Has the rating been adjusted since Melin broke that hold?

I set this up by rapping off chains that are just right of the end of Buddha Bukstein Crack. Rapping off those and angling left (if facing the rock) will get you to the chains for Remedy. Aug 4, 2011
ChrisFrayer
Platteville, Wi
5.12a
ChrisFrayer   Platteville, Wi
5.12a
Two boulder problems separated by a no hands rest. The last boulder problem is fun and dynamic, and about the same difficulty as the lower problem. Great route. Oct 16, 2010
TravisMelin
Portland, OR, Roanoke, VA L
  5.12a/b
TravisMelin   Portland, OR, Roanoke, VA L
  5.12a/b
To answer my own question it is way harder. Aug 4, 2007
TravisMelin
Portland, OR, Roanoke, VA L
  5.12a/b
TravisMelin   Portland, OR, Roanoke, VA L
  5.12a/b
Broke a large foot hold off on the top crux last fall, softball sized. Anyone been up there since? It'll make that last more a bit more difficult. May 2, 2007