Type: Sport, 60 ft
FA: Tom Ramier (FA, 1997), Travis Melin (FFA, 2008)
Page Views: 3,492 total · 23/month
Shared By: JJ Schlick on Aug 31, 2006
Admins: Kris Gorny, chris tregge

You & This Route


3 Opinions

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Description

Echoes Extension is the only fully bolted route at Palisade Head. Several bouldery pulls dispersed between somewhat tiring rest stances. According to Travis Melin (FFA) it is a great and secure sport lead. Except for the last 10 feet the route is pretty clean, although some of the small holds in the lower crux may be brittle. Use caution topping out as the rock is loose for the last 10 feet.

Location

Second pitch to Echoes

Protection

Bolts

Photos

Chris Hirsch
Rapid City, SD
Chris Hirsch   Rapid City, SD
How do the bolts look? And are there other bolt lines at Palisade? Sep 1, 2006
JJ Schlick
Flagstaff, AZ
  5.13b
JJ Schlick   Flagstaff, AZ  
  5.13b
Hey Chris,

It has been years since I was last on the thing, but the hardware seemed to be in pretty good shape. As for other bolted pitches, there is Swizelstick legs towards .11c towards the south end, but don't really excpect a "sport" route. The top 10 feet or so of this line fell off not so long ago, but it left clean stone behind. Sep 4, 2006
Bingman
Fort Collins, CO
Bingman   Fort Collins, CO
Freed on lead by Travis Melin (2008). FFA I believe. Aug 28, 2008
TravisMelin
Portland, OR, Roanoke, VA L
  5.13a
TravisMelin   Portland, OR, Roanoke, VA L
  5.13a
Im guessing this has seen a lead before me. The route is pretty clean, and there was evidence of a bit of traffic in the not too distant past. Though I did find some of the small holds in the lower crux breaking as I was on lead.....so maybe not. Maybe this route has been overlooked because of its possible project status, but as one of the only fully bolted routes at the head I am surprised it doesn't get more traffic (maybe it does? Im not local so i wouldnt know...). Its really a great secure sport lead. I would describe it as several bouldery pulls dispersed between somewhat tiring rest stances. If you can pull the other tough routes up here, this one will be tough, but go quickly. All in all a very fun route, well worth doing. Just use caution topping out as the rock is loose for the last 10 feet. Aug 28, 2008
Kris Gorny    
Congrats Travis!! Awesome. Darin played on it once too and he said it was tough. I was always under the impression that this has not seen the FA yet. But I'd ask James Loveridge to make sure. Sep 8, 2008
Chris Hirsch
Rapid City, SD
Chris Hirsch   Rapid City, SD
Yeah nice job! I was on the route the weekend before you I think, just tried it once from the ground/water, checking it out for the first time. I didn't do it. So to the best of my knowledge thats a first ascent. Good work! Sep 9, 2008
TravisMelin
Portland, OR, Roanoke, VA L
  5.13a
TravisMelin   Portland, OR, Roanoke, VA L
  5.13a
Thanks guys, Chris based on your above post, and lead of Palisaid I always kinda thought that you did it a few years back. I had been wanting to get on this route for over a year myself...its just so hard to find time to go to the the Head ya know? Good luck on it. Sep 10, 2008
chris tregge
Beersconsin
chris tregge   Beersconsin  
Nice work Travis! Congrats. Sep 10, 2008
Rad Travis! Did you lead the second pitch or link the first and second together?? I got on the second pitch a while back and thought it was in the easy 13 range. I can't imagine linking the two..? Good work! Sep 11, 2008
TravisMelin
Portland, OR, Roanoke, VA L
  5.13a
TravisMelin   Portland, OR, Roanoke, VA L
  5.13a
Darin, we lead this as two seperate pitches. Maybe the true FA would be to do it as one? There are good rest stances on Echoes (unless you force yourself to stay on the face), so I think skipping the anchor on echoes would only add a bit more difficulty (mostly rope weight?). Either way I only had time for one RP attempt and wasnt in the mood for a fall.... Sep 11, 2008
Chris Hirsch
Rapid City, SD
Chris Hirsch   Rapid City, SD
I think if the 2 pitches were freed into one it would be mid 13, felt pretty hard to me, and thin! However if the big ledge was on route... Either way I wasn't too psyched on coming back for this route, not sure what it was about it, maybe the difficult anchor setup. Haha that's why there was bail biners on the top ;) (we already had our anchor setup on Poseidon) Sep 11, 2008
James Loveridge
Minneapolis, MN
James Loveridge   Minneapolis, MN
Sweet! That's awesome Travis. As far as I know, yours is the first successful lead of the second "pitch". It has been successfully TR'd but I'm pretty sure nobody's led it. I'd say yours is a legit FA. Congrats!

Saying that… The original equipers intended for 'Echoes' to be a one pitch climb from the water to the top. The reason it's called Echoes "Extension" is because they could'nt’t finish it in one go… They put anchors in at the halfway point (just before "The Business" starts) in order to have a "finished" climb… I'd have to agree with the equipers original intentions and kinda think the current 2 "pitch" climb is rather contrived. The line doesn't stop at the chains, it just gets WAY harder -AND- from the chains, the line flows to the left AWAY from the big Poseidon ledge. You'd have to go about 4 feet off route to get to it so I don’t think that ledge is part of the "natural" flow of the climb.

Travis, I think you definitely bagged the FA of the "extension" and that is a worthy accomplishment and deserving of FA kudos. Eventually, I think there will be 3 distinct FA credits; One for the first "pitch" -Echoes- FA: Past Equiper. 11b, (Still need to find out who did this and when…); One for the second "pitch" -Echoes Extension- FA: Travis Melin. 13a, Aug 2008); One for the whole thing in one go -Yet To Be Named- FA: Future Hardman. 13+

There are other precedents similar to this at P-Head and other many other places. Realization in Ceuse for instance: The FA of the first and second sections was done by Arnaud Petit in '96. They were treated as 2 separate climbs. One called: -Biographie- 8c+ and the other commonly known as: -Biographie Extension- 8b+. When Sharma freed the whole thing in one go he renamed it -Realization- and it was subsequently graded (by others…) 9a+. The fact that Sharma did it in one go doesn’t mean that the original -Biographie- is now moot. On the contrary! The route is more popular than ever and has had dozens of ascents where before Sharma's link-up it had had only 3 (Petit, Sylvain Millet and Sharma).

I guess what I'm getting at is that I believe you (Travis) should get FA credit for the second section and then, whomever does the whole thing in one go will get to rename and grade the thing to his/her desire. The full FA will NOT take away the FA claims of the first and second sections, it will only add a claim.

Nice work Travis! Now you (or somebody…) has got to get up here and do the link up! Sep 12, 2008
TravisMelin
Portland, OR, Roanoke, VA L
  5.13a
TravisMelin   Portland, OR, Roanoke, VA L
  5.13a
I totally agree James. Was this bolted by two diff. people? or just at diff times? It looked to me like P1 was bolted a long time ago and P2 more recently. The hangers on P2 looked more solid than the ones way down low....Anyone up for trying the full next August:) Sep 13, 2008
JJ Schlick
Flagstaff, AZ
  5.13b
JJ Schlick   Flagstaff, AZ  
  5.13b
Hey Travis,

A fine send indeed. Congrats!

From what I remember going back about 14 years or so is that Echoes and the extension where put up by two different parties... I could be wrong. I think Tom Ramier fathered/worked the extension, without reaping the rewards. Dave would know better than I. I only played around on the thing, but found some of it to be really enjoyable/hard, as well as, engaging. Sep 13, 2008
Peter L Scott
Pequot Lakes, MN
Peter L Scott   Pequot Lakes, MN
Echos was originally bolted and climbed by Scott Brockmeier circa 1988. I belayed him. Echos extension was bolted by Tom Ramier circa 1997. He and I worked it on TR. Tom got the first TR ascent and named it Happy Happy Joy Joy. Unfortunately neither of us completed the route on lead.

Congrats Travis, a fine lead indeed!

I hope someone has or will do the link-up. Oct 16, 2011
KurtH
  5.13-
KurtH  
  5.13-
This is hands down one of the best sport lines of any grade I've been on anywhere! Why is this not climbed all the time?! Super long, engaging, very techy and sequential, stunning rock and wild exposure over Lake Superior.

Although it really ought to be done in one single pitch, doing it in two pitches makes sense: it will keep you and your rope dry, allow you to see the climber, and have an all around more enjoyable experience. Plus you can get a 100% full recovery on the PA ledge (then take your shoes off, have lunch and stretch), so doing it in one pitch really doesn't change the difficulty.

On that note, we agreed that in our opinion, it would be contrived not to use the PA ledge as you can easily clip two bolts on Echoes while standing on it. Also, not sure why you would belay from the hanging belay 10 feet above the cozy ledge(especially since this removes a fun and challenging traverse sequence) but to each their own. Jul 21, 2014