Mountain Project Logo
To save paper & ink, use the [Hide] controls next to photos and comments so you only print what you need.

Friends and Lovers

5.9 PG13, Trad, 80 ft (24 m),  Avg: 2.7 from 117 votes
FA: Ron Sacks, Anne Dubats, Mike Sawicky, Rick Cronk 1978
New York > Gunks > Trapps > f. The Guides' Wall (…

Description

Swain gives this climb a 'R' rating for the first pitch but most climbers get adequate gear, one of those often scary but not truly dangerous climbs.  

Use the same access trail as for Minty. This is about a 9-min. walk from the Uberfall, or a 5-min. walk from where the East Trapps Connector Trail meets the carriage road. At the cliff, walk 35' left of Minty to the start of the route.

Start about 15'-20' right of Snooky's Return below some shallow right-facing corners.

P1: Head up into the short right-facing corner above and surmount the first crux at a small overlap.  Easier climbing leads to a stance where you can load up on pro before making a thin committing move (crux 2).  Fun easier face climbing leads to a traverse left and then a ledge walk to the Snooky bolted anchor for a lower off.  Much easier less interesting climbing above yields two more rarely done pitches.

Rappel over Snooky's Return.

Location

Located 20' right of Snooky's Return and 35' left of Minty.

Protection

Standard Rack, with extra thin gear...

Photos [Hide ALL Photos]

Jim at the crux
[Hide Photo] Jim at the crux
End of the Friends and Lovers' first pitch.
[Hide Photo] End of the Friends and Lovers' first pitch.
Tiffany on Friends and Lovers
[Hide Photo] Tiffany on Friends and Lovers
At the first crux on P1...
[Hide Photo] At the first crux on P1...

Comments [Hide ALL Comments]

Tim Schafstall
Newark, DE
 
[Hide Comment] Super first pitch, but this climb stays wet longer than any other in the Gunks (even Hawk) due to a persistent drip about 15-20 feet up.
Lowe Balls helpful on this one. Apr 2, 2008
losbill
  5.9
[Hide Comment] Minty P2 and Snooky's Return P3 trees are dead and webbing and rings are no longer on them. Top and take short walk climber's right to Madame G's rap. Nov 14, 2010
rogerbenton
  5.9 PG13
[Hide Comment] I'm giving the first pitch a PG-13: there is gear enough to keep you off the deck but there are definitely ugly falls possible, and on less than stellar placements.

Fun pitch, great face climbing. Apr 14, 2013
[Hide Comment] I'm not sure what gear you were using, but for me every placement on the first pitch is rock solid gear. There are no iffy placements on this pitch and there is no specialty gear needed. For some reason this pitch got an R in the old Swain guide. This pitch is PG and only because of the crux, which requires that you make a move or two with your feet over the gear. Other than that you are dong beautiful aesthetic face moves on good gear. Apr 27, 2013
Alex Jacques
Idyllwild, CA
 
[Hide Comment] I guess I can see an argument that this climb is PG-13, but the falls would all be clean. Fun and sketchy crux move (the greasy foot one) above gear. Plug smart and don't worry about it. Oct 13, 2013
rogerbenton
  5.9 PG13
[Hide Comment] FWIW, Grey Dick calls it PG but also calls out ballnutz for crux pro. Nov 14, 2013
Paul NotPaul
New York, New York
[Hide Comment] On October 2014 my buddy took a fall from right above the first crux on a cam placed under the first slight overhang. The fall had him slam into the sloped face about 10 feet below the overhang. He slammed on his foot and his ankle puffed up big time. He couldn't walk and the day ended with a trip on the back of a mohonk pickup. Orthopedist visits are next.

5.9 R Oct 6, 2014
[Hide Comment] If you are calling the first overlap at about 25 feet the first crux then the gear there is great. Not only do you have rock solid placement in a horizontal, but there is also an obvious nut placement a few feet above that in a vertical crack that you can place before committing to any moves, you could hang a car off of that piece. You also get another good cam a few feet higher after mover over that overlap. The only spot on the this pitch where you are doing any challenging moves over gear is at the "bear hug" crux moving off of the ledge and that gear is also rock solid and can be doubled up. I would think this route to be a bad choice for someone breaking into the grade, but for anyone who is solid on 9 or higher they should have no problem safely leading this and finding very good gear the whole way. Definitely not R. You never go more than 10 feet without the ability to place a good piece. May 9, 2015
John Gassel
Boulder, CO
  5.9
[Hide Comment] I second the previous post by David. I was going to express almost the exact same thoughts.

A fun route to get you a little sweaty at the bear hug move. It's got a few runouts but it can be protected safely. Sep 8, 2015
[Hide Comment] I really love this route and I've led it a few times including yesterday, but I would say the second half is not for the meek. The gear is at your feet when you step up to perform the delicate second crux, and even after you grab the good hold you have to make a few more moves before you get gear. Then as you continue up the face the climbing is easier but you either run it out to the final ledge or you place gear in a questionable, downward-facing, hollow flex flake. If you are solid at 5.9 the route is a good test for your head. And the climbing is very good indeed. Mar 9, 2020
Peter T
Boston
  5.9 PG13
[Hide Comment] While I agree with David's comments above, I would still call this PG13 because even though the gear is good, it is spaced out and if something didn't hold there are a few places you could deck. Aug 10, 2020
Simeon Deming
Phila, PA
[Hide Comment] this is one of the more proud 9s on the Preserve that is overlooked. Many stars are deserved... Nov 6, 2022