[Hide Comment] This route is a must do despite a few hundred feet of junk in the middle. An excellent tour de North Chasm View... Supa! Apr 18, 2005

[Hide Comment] Definitely a classic, with some peggy climbing in the middle. It takes a pitch to get the the "start" of the route described in the guidebook. Aim for the splitter right facing dihedral. On that dihedral pitch, don't climb to the top of the pillar, rather belay just past the horn halfway up, and you'll see the traverse pitch out right. Enjoy. Apr 25, 2005

[Hide Comment] Quality route with several good pitches interspersed with some junk and challenging route finding. I consider this route to be grade IV as it is much more involved and requires a longer day than other grade IV routes in the canyon. Jul 15, 2005

[Hide Comment] My partner and I thought this was an excellent route. The good pictches were not just relatively good, as RD says, they are pitches you would seek out to climb. Bonus: the lesser pitches were by the standards of "bad Black" pitches, pretty good, lacking either excessive vegetation or choss. In mid May, after leaving camp at about 0510, having good beta on the approach, starting climbing a little before 7, climbing moderately quickly but not doing anything crazy, we were climbing in the shade until the Womb Fight.

I've seen two basic sets of descriptions and ratings for this climb: the 10a version from the guide book (which is similar to a different and superior topo the ranger may be able to show you a copy of) and BD's version detailed in this thread. For my money, BD's is far more accurate; much credit to him for exposing himself to the potshots of internet snipers and calling the other route descriptions for the massive sandbags they are. I felt the hardest two pitches of MSV were at least as challenging as anything on the Scenic Cruise although SC contains more climbing and is overall more physically taxing.

Specific beta which annotates BD's annotations:

P2: The roof crack of the right is very good 10- climbing. The fixed sling on the flake is gone. The reach right is wingspan and fist size intensive; someone with shorter arms and smaller fists will find this move extraordinarily difficult for "5.9+". Some people break this pitch into two, belaying after about 60' at a cramped triangular stance; this is not recommended -- save your wider gear for above this point and do it as one, per BD's writeup although from the standpoint of ropedrag, you might be better off belaying at the bottom of the traverse rather than moving up the double cracks. Either way, a sensational pitch.

P3-7. With a little simulclimbing, we managed to do these five pitches as three with a 60 meter rope. The key is to break out of the P6 gully (towards the SO Ledge) fairly early. However you break this stretch up, you will want to belay after the chimney per BD's P5.

P8. A great pitch with pegmatite spice, cruxy underclinging, a long strech of solid hands and wide hands and finishing with a tricky face move and a wild belay perch. You will be glad you brought all of the recommended rack for this one. If this is 9+, Rosy Crucifixion is overrated.

P9. We did the left crack, 10+ per BD and, if I'm not mistaken, the Williams guide. Felt like 5.8 to me.

Womb Fight. Those felt misused by P2's fisty wingspan move have their revenge. The WF itself felt like low 5th (maybe even 4th) class groveling to me. Comparisons to a factory seconds version of Thank God Ledge seemed apt. I would describe BD's "right-facing corner" at the end of the pitch as a ramp.

P11. Still a hard move or two on this pitch. May 21, 2006

[Hide Comment] I think this route is getting a wee bit over-hyped on this page. While it provides a fun and relatively moderate tour up an impressive wall, people might get the impression from these comments that it's nearly Scenic Cruise quality. Not so. I thought the route was good but not a genuine classic. It has two excellent pitches (the 5.10s), some average Black Canyon 5.8 and 5.9, and quite a lot of scrambling and traversing. The easier stuff certainly wasn't bad by Black standards, but it does detract from "classic" status. Still, the route is well worth doing. Allow 1.5 to 2 hours for the approach, especially if the poison ivy is thick. The scramble up to the right after leaving the main approach gully is much more than 200 feet. Keep going until you reach some big terraces and can spot the obvious right-facing corner of the second pitch, back up to your left. I thought the cruxes were mid-5.10, and the start of the second crux (the pegmatite groove on Bob's pitch 8) would be very serious if wet. You might end up waiting for dry rock. Luckily the belay ledge would make a great bivy site. May 23, 2006

[Hide Comment] "Massive sandbag"? We figured it out OK, so I thought Robbie's beta did the job. Maybe not.

I once met Don Reid, author of the Yosemite guide. The poor guy. Immediately upon letting on that he was in fact THAT Donny Reid, he issued what was obviously a much-practiced statement: "Whatever happened, I'm sorry." Jun 8, 2006

[Hide Comment] The guidebook offers a 5.11 bolted variation on I believe the third pitch: DO NOT TAKE IT!! Totally, not worth it as it became a pain in the ass to get back to the proper MSV line.

Overall, I agree with Dougald that this route is hyped way too much. Definitely the least enjoyable of the 5.10s I've done in the Black. Jun 16, 2007

[Hide Comment] This is a great adventure climb. The start of the route has some of the highest quality rock you'll find anywhere. The traverse is of P2 is laid back. My brother is a little fella (5'7") and had no problem on it. We climbed MSV just to check out the top of Stoned Oven and had a f'ing awesome outing. Even with a long mid section across chunk, it was an outstanding mountaineer type outing. Sep 2, 2011

[Hide Comment] Great route. Linking the 5.10a P2 and traverse pitch into one makes sense. Rope drag could be a problem, but it's totally doable. The traverse move isn't that reach-dependent. Only need one #4.

The womb fight rules! Ha ha!

Give yourself some time on this one with the approach and all.... The crux pitch is NOT 5.9+. May 31, 2015

[Hide Comment] Badly broken ankle on the 3rd pitch, we left a 1 and 3 BD ul and some DMM offsets up there during self rescue. The Cruise gully on one leg sucks! Would love them back if someone is feeling awesome! Will hook you up.

brad@gwynnepugh.com Aug 15, 2017

[Hide Comment] After a bit of a debacle trying to find the start to this climb, ended up climbing a bit of one of the no pig routes, I think the better beta is to start from Cruise Gully not SOB. This may be a slightly longer approach, and if you know your way around, the SOB approach might be faster. If you approach from Cruise, you get a really clear view of the wall, and it is way more straightforward. Basically just traverse around the face past The Cruise routes and up to the big gully separating the Plunge Pillar from the No Pig Routes Buttress, and the first pitch becomes obvious. Aug 9, 2020

[Hide Comment] This is a great route. Make sure you don't underestimate the moderate 5.8/5.9 pitches, as these were the ones that went more slowly for me and my partner, because the route finding is not as straightforward as the 5.10 pitches, and oh boy, that 5.9 "step across" is spicy! Have fun! Nov 1, 2021

[Hide Comment] Just repeated this after eight years. I had forgotten how good the good parts are (P2, P3, and the dearly beloved Womb Fight), how mediocre the mediocre parts are (everything else), and how bad the bad parts are (wallowing about searching for the start, and the crux pitch).

Plagued by my faulty memory, I led us on a wild goose chase around the back side of the 4th Class scramble, up a narrow gully (closer to SOB). It got us to P1 ... eventually. Not recommended.

P1: romp up a featured splitter, peggish handcrack, belay at a good ledge at the base of the right-facing corner that starts as squeeze then goes to hands.

P2: climb up the little roof to the right of the wide corner, then traverse into the hands corner on good holds and gear. After some slammer jams, belay at a large horn off anything from #0.75 to #4.0, or sling the horn. We didn't see the value in linking into the traverse.

P3: from the horn, traverse right and down on positive flakes (not all of which are solid). Head up and into the opposite corner and pull a thuggy 5.10 move to get established. Your rope management will determine how far you can make it up the corner.

P4: climb a easy but funky section of the corner that would sew up nicely with the hexes you didn't bring. Eventually good cam placements appear. Cut up and right into a peggy trough / slot / corner, and run the rope as far as you can.

P5: continue up the peggy corner until you get to a peg chimney. Take the right of the two steep exits and belay on an excellent ledge.

P6: wander up the bushy gully to your left, then traverse hard right across a good ledge to base of the crux left-facing corner, which starts as a peg groove.

P7: dice it up on poorly-protected, greasy peg slab, heading up and right for the undercling that thankfully takes good gear (#0.5 to #1.0). Don't get suckered left too early. A proper offset fingers cam like a blue-yellow or purple-blue Metolius would take the sting out of the peg slab slightly, but it's still pretty zesty. Keep your head screwed on. Undercling and step left into the actual corner (hard!), and fight your way up some uninspiring, flaring jams in mediocre rock until you get to the bomber modern bolt that was replaced in 2020. The step-across move into the au cheval stance (manageable 5.10d) is superb -- too bad the rest of the crux pitch isn't as good. The belay position is wild. If you can save a #4 for it, you'll enjoy it even more. This pitch is stout for 5.10d, bakes in the sun, and has some bad fall zones on 5.9- terrain.

P8: a big airy step gets you into a fun 5.10 splitter. Rock quality deteriorates as the pitch progresses, but soldier on until you reach the money pitch of the entire route.

P9: yes.

P10: this could be combined with the Womb Fight, but then you'd miss out on the coolest belay perch and killer photos of your partner following the pitch. Start this pitch at the ramp just at the end of the Womb Fight, and gallivant up and right while chortling with glee.

P11: walk up the trail (Class 2), and mantel the chain-link fence from a sit-start at V4.

Overall, I'd say the route is worth doing once just for the Womb Fight. In another eight years, I'll probably forget everything I've written here and do it again. May 8, 2022