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Routes in Middle

Dirty Corner (unknown) T 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a PG13
I Have a Dream S,TR 5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c
Lucid Dreaming S 5.12c/d 7c 28 IX 28 E6 6b
Nerve Damage T 5.10+ 6b+ 21 VII+ 20 E3 5b PG13
Plotinus T 5.10 6b 20 VII- 19 E2 5b
Rama T,S 5.10b 6a+ 19 VII- 19 E2 5b
Scientist, The T,S 5.11a/b 6c 23 VIII- 23 E3 5c
Type: Sport
FA: Vaino Kodas , Bob D'Antonio and Mary Zuvela
Page Views: 20,175 total, 103/month
Shared By: Ron Olsen on Nov 10, 2001
Admins: Leo Paik, John McNamee, Frances Fierst, Monty, Monomaniac

You & This Route


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Description

Just right of Rama on the Plotinus Wall is a beautiful, overhanging arete. This is Lucid Dreaming. Stick-clip the first bolt then power up a series of tricky, strenuous moves to a stopper move near the the fourth bolt. Crank up over the bulge and follow the steep face up to a two-bolt anchor. Classic and hard arete climbing on beautiful granite.

Protection

Eight bolts to a two-bolt anchor.
J. Albers
Colorado
J. Albers   Colorado
I'm with Adam 100% on this, i.e. please don't add perma-draws, and Jacob, arguing that draws are not permanent because you can take them off with a wrench is a semantic distinction. IMHO Boulder Canyon routes are a very bad venue for permanent hardware...especially on a wall where there are already quasi-access issues. Plus, there just isn't a need, because it is super easy to clean the routes here. Dec 30, 2014
Ken Cangi
Eldorado Springs, CO
  5.12c
Ken Cangi   Eldorado Springs, CO
  5.12c
That's a tough one, Joe. My initial thought about the route was that the top half was wasted mileage, although I came to see it as a fun cool-down after the business. Cleaning the pitch is pretty simple, and I don't think moving the anchors over will make cleaning the overhanging section much easier.

The route is a well established classic, which has been done too many times now to change it, IMO. Dec 13, 2016
Joseph Crotty
Broomfield, CO
  5.12d
Joseph Crotty   Broomfield, CO
  5.12d
Anchor location on this route has always been a bit baffling which is shared w/ The Scientist and Rama. Probably the case of the FA making due w/ an anchor on a previously established route to make things "easy." However, in my opinion the anchor should be right around bolt six which would make cleaning on lower super easy. The terrain above bolt five is at best 5.9, and nobody who sends the crux and clips bolt five is ever falling off anywhere higher. In addition, the terrain after the crux is ho-hum.

I don't think this climb is a candidate for permanent draws. However, do bring a stick clip for bolt one as it's too risky otherwise. Nov 28, 2016
Steve Annecone
boulder
Steve Annecone   boulder
Agree completely with Adam and KCP, no perma-draws here, please. Jan 3, 2015
Ken Cangi
Eldorado Springs, CO
  5.12c
Ken Cangi   Eldorado Springs, CO
  5.12c
Not going to mince words in saying that I oppose permadraws on a route like LD. Hanging draws on this rig is a breeze. I've done it several times. Moreover, having permadraws prohibits the ability of hanging draws for a traditional onsight, which still matters to some climbers. Convenience draws are best suited for gyms and steep, dry, cave-routes which are otherwise a major undertaking to equip. I own expensive Petzl Spirits for a reason, and I don't want to be forced into using permadraws because someone else wants them there for training-route convenience. Jan 3, 2015
Jacob Neathawk
Nederland, CO
Jacob Neathawk   Nederland, CO
Equipping the route with Climb Tech type draws will not be permanent. All you need is a wrench to undo the quicklink. This route has had standard aluminum draws hanging on it for the past few seasons which have deteriorated fairly rapidly. I'm all for hanging a few steel Climb Tech draws on this route, they will be safer, and in my opinion look better than a bunch of mismatched B-team draws with potentially dangerous, sharp grooves worn in them. Dec 30, 2014
adam brink
Boulder, CO
  5.12c
adam brink   Boulder, CO
  5.12c
Hi Curt,

Please do not permanently equip this route (or any other, for that matter). Perma-draws are an eyesore and totally unnecessary for this route. Lucid is easy to clean, and this is a beautiful canyon that should not be blemished by needless permanent draws. Thank you for considering the natural beauty of the area over the minute of effort it takes to clean the route. Dec 29, 2014
Curt MacNeill
Boulder, CO
 
Curt MacNeill   Boulder, CO
 
KCP, the draws taken down in May were mine. No big deal. I use to do the route a lot and just had them up for ease of climbing and not having to clean. I have actually donated several sets of draws over the years. I have thought about permanently equipping this route with some steel Climb Tech draws to the first 4 bolts which should last a long time, mainly to prevent having to climb the 5.10 to the top and not having to clean the route. Most pull through the crux, and once standing pull some slack and take the whip. Maybe someday I will get around to it. Good to always inspect and pull garbage draws from routes though, so thank you. There are plenty bad ones out there.... Dec 28, 2014
Blake Storey
Boulder, CO
Blake Storey   Boulder, CO
I hung a set of draws today on Lucid. They have a grey dogbone and black Omega biners. Also there are two blue BD QDs for the anchors. I fell and injured my foot while attempting the route and couldn't rescue the draws. I will be back in a few weeks to retrieve them when I'm better. If anyone cleans them before hand, please contact me. Thanks. Oct 19, 2014
Andy Hansen
Longmont, Colorado
  5.12d
Andy Hansen   Longmont, Colorado
  5.12d
There are currently no fixed draws on this route, and I did not find hanging the draws to be such a chore that this route should be equipped with permanent draws. Easy to hang the draws from good stances and good holds. I can see this pushing 13a for short folks and somewhere around hard 12 for tall folks. Either way, good movement, great holds, and although the climbing eases considerably after the crux, the climbing above the crux is still cerebral. Oct 5, 2014
slim    
Completely agree w/ JA and KCP. Aug 18, 2014
Ken Cangi
Eldorado Springs, CO
  5.12c
Ken Cangi   Eldorado Springs, CO
  5.12c
I'm with J on this, Chris. The draws were sun-damaged, and the biners were worn enough to potentially damage rope running over them. The draw on the fourth bolt was curled up stiff into a 90 degree position from the sun-damage. If you can't see the danger potential from the pic, then I'm especially glad that I removed them before someone gets hurt.

As for replacing them, it's not my responsibility, nor am I in the financial position to. LD is not a gym route, and no one asked the draw owner to equip the route and leave his or her draws there indefinitely. It was obviously done out of convenience, with little regard long-term wear.

I took them down and posted that here so that the owner would know where to find them and the community would know not to hike up there expecting the route to be equipped. I even offered to deliver them within Boulder city limits. I felt (feel) that it was the responsible thing to do. Hopefully you can see it that way.

Peace Aug 17, 2014
J. Albers
Colorado
J. Albers   Colorado
^^^^^
Why again is it Ken's responsibility to replace the fixed draws? Want a solution to your perceived problem? Bring your own gear, and clean it on the way back down. Personally I think it was awfully generous of Ken to take the time to take pics of the gear with an offer to return it. Aug 15, 2014
Ken Cangi
Eldorado Springs, CO
  5.12c
Ken Cangi   Eldorado Springs, CO
  5.12c
Patrick Vernon
Estes Park, CO
  5.12c/d
Patrick Vernon   Estes Park, CO
  5.12c/d
I wonder what Lucid Dreaming would be rated in Rifle? Nov 21, 2013
Tyler Fox  
 
Finished this today and cleaned my draws, blue BDs. Moved the other 4 draws to the 1st 4 bolts. Just a heads up. Nov 8, 2012
kiff
  5.12c
kiff  
  5.12c
I think that there is no way this is 13a, especially when compared to routes like Big Kahuna in Rumney, which is considered tough 12d/13a, there is no move on Lucid harder than the crux moves on BK. This should "settle" at 12c/d. Nov 23, 2011
Curt MacNeill
Boulder, CO
 
Curt MacNeill   Boulder, CO
 
Great route. Do it! Still remains an ultra-classic climb in the front range.... Mar 23, 2011
I am new to this area of grade (hard 12) and recently did another Dream Canyon route...The Caterer 12c. I was wondering how you would rate The Caterer (because nobody posts any comments on it) and how it compares to a route like Lucid Dreaming.

Any comments? Nov 20, 2006
13a for sure and a great one at that. Aug 8, 2006
As reference, ac's bouldering scale is off by about a number grade (V8=13a), but you will find many more climbers capable of climbing a V8 boulder problem than a 13a. I believe George's 12b grade may be a little stiff (that is most likley the result of being a solid 13 climber). Oct 18, 2005
To further the case for downrating you can dyno past the first crux from a jug to the shaky flake (height-dependent but easy V0+ move for most people). To my belayer's dismay, this seemed like the most efficient idea, and after seeing him thrutch on the layback to get to the same hold, I figured he was doing it wrong anyway - he should spend more time bouldering and learning dynamic movement because this is nothing short of a giveaway to anyone who boulders. Jul 12, 2005
Jim Redo
  5.12c
Jim Redo  
  5.12c
I felt the route was 12c, and I'm short. The [Flying Beast] at Easter [Rock] is much harder and that gets the slash grade of easy 13a. Although the routes are a bit different in angle [The Flying Beast] is two boulder problems separated by a not so good of a rest as Lucid. Jul 8, 2005
Jim Collins  
 
Rating--depends on height. Easier for taller people.Upper crux feels about like Hagan's Wall difficulty (V5), lower section feels about like Consideration difficulty (V4) -- so it is essentially a V4 with a good shake followed up by a V5. Which adds up to something in the range of 12d. Jun 23, 2005
Doesn't V6 relate to 12d/13a? Jun 10, 2005
This route is very similar to No Doze at the Sport Park (style and difficulty) - 12c by Boulder Canyon standards, could be a 12b in other areas I have visited. Very bouldery, so I can see where some folks could get shut down, but V6 if you look at it that way. Jun 9, 2005
Jim Redo
  5.12c
Jim Redo  
  5.12c
A good 12c Jun 1, 2005
Joe Collins
  5.12d
Joe Collins  
  5.12d
Just to be a grade geek here... comparing to other BC routes, I found this one a good bit harder to send than Animal Instinct, Amazing Face, and Hands of Destiny. I don't have much experience with 13a, but I would expect that to be a much longer-term project. Mar 17, 2004
Tony B
Around Boulder, CO
  5.12
Tony B   Around Boulder, CO
  5.12
I guess that just goes to show this route has a little something for everyone. I on-sighted to the 4th bolt and then hit a small hold up and left that spit me off 2 or 3 times. Dec 8, 2003
Joe Collins
  5.12d
Joe Collins  
  5.12d
Awesome route. Hard to believe this line wasn't put up until recently. I found the hardest single move to be the long move from the jug at the 2nd bolt... this was a low percentage move for me. If you don't have a stick clip, you can clip the first bolt of Rama to remove the possibility of tumbling down to the creek.

Not sure what to make of the downgrading going on here. I think people just like to give Bob a hard time. I've been able to finish 12c's at Boulder Canyon and Shelf really quickly of late, but this one will need a bit more work for me to link. Dec 8, 2003
jonah
 
jonah  
 
I'm bummed that I'm moving from Boulder, because I won't have routes like this in my backyard anymore. Not too bummed to get away from all the mindless downgrading ego games, though. Yuck. This route is hands down one of the most aesthetic in the canyon, with some of the most fun climbing anywhere. And it is bolted just right for some good clean air when you blow the crux before clipping the 4th bolt. Great job, Bob! Sep 30, 2003
Tony B
Around Boulder, CO
  5.12
Tony B   Around Boulder, CO
  5.12
Nice climb, nice moves: too bad I didn't link some of them...Speaking of the holds maybe breaking off, The hold on the arete from which to clip the first bolt is cracked back behind it and scares me a little. Check it out and consider stick-clipping bolt #1. Jul 23, 2003
Man, I wish I were as weak as you guys... Jul 11, 2003
I'm a weak Boulder climber and i have to say it felt like 12b/c to me. A very high quality route, nonetheless. Jul 7, 2003
Peter Beal
Boulder Colorado
Peter Beal   Boulder Colorado
Pretty solid for 12c but definitely not 13a. However I have a feeling a few holds are going to break on this, especially the potato chip flake below the third bolt, in which case the rating will definitely jump. Apr 11, 2003
Awesome route! Probably the best 12c in Boulder Canyon. Steep climbing leads to a reachy V4 crux. I would recommend a stiff boot! Good job Bob. Dec 17, 2002