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Routes in North and West Faces

Better than Bitter S 5.10b/c 6b 20 VII 20 E2 5b
Broken Thumb T 5.10a/b 6a+ 19 VI+ 19 E2 5b
Diminishing Returns T 5.11b 6c 23 VIII- 23 E3 5c
Falling Apart at the Seams T 5.11b 6c 23 VIII- 23 E3 5c R
Flamin' Freddie T 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a R
Guilt Trip T 5.10d 6b+ 21 VII+ 21 E3 5b
Hollow Man S 5.9 5c 17 VI 17 HVS 5a
Nuthin' Tuff T 5.8 5b 16 VI- 15 HVS 4c
On a Whim T 5.8- 5b 16 VI- 14 VS 4c
Pins and Knickers T 5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c R
Split Seam T 5.10a 6a 18 VI+ 18 E1 5a R
Tuff Enough T 5.9- 5c 17 VI 16 HVS 4c
Tuff'n Up S 5.11b 6c 23 VIII- 23 E3 5c
Winky and Waxman Go Bolting S 5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c
Wrecking Ball S 5.11a 6c 22 VII+ 22 E3 5c
cTr S 5.10b 6a+ 19 VII- 19 E2 5b
Type: Sport, 30 ft
FA: Merill Bitter, Robyn Waxman 1987
Page Views: 6,758 total, 38/month
Shared By: Nathan Fisher on Jun 17, 2003
Admins: Andrew Gram, Perin Blanchard, grk10vq

You & This Route


246 Opinions

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Description

This is the short (3 bolt) problem on the west face, just past the pine tree. It protects well, and is a pump. On my first ascent, I almost couldn't open the draws at the top for the chains. Stay out of the crack to the right, and expect rock-solid forearms when you are done.

Protection

2 bolts atop, and 3 draws on the lead. A 5.4 scramble up the left-facing corner to the left will get you atop for the top-rope. But.... go for the lead, it is well worth it, and because of the nature of the rock, a fall is fun.
Ken Noyce
Layton, UT
  5.11a
Ken Noyce   Layton, UT
  5.11a
I agree that this route isn't 5.11b, but I think the comment above by Super Fluke is kind of funny since a V2 equates to about 5.11a, so it's a V2 boulder problem, but no way it's harder than 5.10b, that makes a lot of sense! Jun 2, 2016
Super Fluke
Earth
  5.10a/b
Super Fluke   Earth
  5.10a/b
No way this is an 11b, its more or less a long V2 bouldering problem, at most a sustained 10b.
When we arrived the belay area was littered with trash, smelled of urine and a small fire was burned near. It will be a sad day when access gets restricted due to incompetence. Aug 10, 2015
J Saarela
Park City
 
J Saarela   Park City
 
Bolts are spinning, couldn't seem to tighten them with the wrench on my nut tool. Falls are clean as long as your belayer doesn't have a huge amount of slack out.

Nice route to do at night as all the good holds are chalked to s***. Very fun movement, great pump, nice first route in the 5.11 range. Aug 10, 2015
ddriver
SLC
ddriver   SLC
Read the comments circa 2008. When the block came off it made the route easier than before and the rating has not changed to reflect that. Jun 1, 2015
IMO...5.10c...max...Loads of fun packed into such a short route. May 31, 2015
Harrison Buck
Bow, NH
  5.11a/b
Harrison Buck   Bow, NH
  5.11a/b
Super fun boulder-like problem. 9/10 would recommend. Apr 23, 2015
Garrett C
SL,UT
  5.10c
Garrett C   SL,UT
  5.10c
Again, I dont belive a sit start adds any difficulty to the climb, just one more move. Pumpy and sustained, but too short to warrant an 11b raiting IMO. Climb Black Monday up at the S Curves to get an idea of what an 11a in BCC should be. Apr 9, 2015
Nick Meinzer
Mountain Green
Nick Meinzer   Mountain Green
I'm wondering if people who down grade this aren't starting from a sitting start. I feel this is necessary to make the grade and really should be in the description. I know I greased off this thing more times than I did White Collar Redneck (the other .11b I've climbed) and people seem to agree with that climbs rating. Oct 4, 2014
Garrett C
SL,UT
  5.10c
Garrett C   SL,UT
  5.10c
For someone who boulders v7 certainly you could understand that there isnt possibly a v3 move on this thing anywhere.... Jul 3, 2014
Sean Henry Scott IV
salt lake city, ut
Sean Henry Scott IV   salt lake city, ut
If only this route went on for another 40 feet!!! Fantastic movement, pretty sustained, no real crux - other than the threat of decking. The discussion about a V grade for this is asinine, anyone who looks closely at the route can see there are at least 3 different variations all on the face itself and without using the arĂȘte (of course). I think those who boulder enough to know how grades feel and claim it's a V3 are right and so are those who claim it's a v1. However, if you really look at the holds and moves it's an 11b hahah...whatever that means. If your intimidated by ground fall, walk around and TR it, it's one of the coolest and most fun routes at the challenge buttress...and it flows. Now again if only it would go for another 40 feet! Jun 8, 2014
Garrett C
SL,UT
  5.10c
Garrett C   SL,UT
  5.10c
Agree on the V1. No way there is anything close to V4. Pretty easy once you get the sequence (but still a pumper). First bolt is pointless in my opinion. Crux for me was topping out as I was pretty pumped and there didnt seem to be any solid holds at the top. Definitely lap-able when you're tired at the end of the day. Stay away from the right crack and go up the face as intended. Nov 27, 2013
Skat B
Down Rodeo
  5.10
Skat B   Down Rodeo
  5.10
It's just a highball V1. Sit start didn't add difficulty. Did laps on this one. Forget about the rating and just have fun on this one!! Jul 11, 2013
Tyler Needham
Salt Lake City, Utah
  5.11b
Tyler Needham   Salt Lake City, Utah
  5.11b
There's absolutely a V2 move on this route (you just have to make sure not to go right). Very contrived but enjoyable. Essentially just a highball. Jan 23, 2013
Boissal
Small Lake, UT
  5.11a
Boissal   Small Lake, UT
  5.11a
Time to update my previous comment: Sit start eliminate on routes: so hot right now...
You should go add a sit start to Condor in Ferguson. At least 6 people would downgrade it and/or shit a brick. Sep 18, 2012
There isn't a v3, let alone v4, move on this little line. Even on sit start (& not using the right corner)nothing is much harder then v1. Pretty fun to finish up the day though. Sep 18, 2012
Referring to the '92 Ruckman guide, this route had a single bolt when it was first established, and the beta called for a hand full of RP's to protect. I'd suggest that one needs to try the ground-up onsight with this in mind to grasp the meaning of the original .11b rating. The "second" bolt was the original. As it stands today (easy protection), and in comparison to the other 11's nearby, I think the route is more in the .10c range, especially once one has the beta sussed. For a grade comparison, head over to the S-Curves and do "Black Monday", because that to me is benchmark for a BCC .11a. Just getting past the first bolt on that route has harder moves than anything on "Winky & Waxman Go Bolting"...that is, if you do not do the route as it was first done... Jul 22, 2012
Boissal
Small Lake, UT
  5.11a
Boissal   Small Lake, UT
  5.11a
V4 if you gaston L hand instead of going to the jug.
Sit start on routes: so hot right now... Oct 2, 2010
Mike Minson
Boulder, CO
  5.11-
Mike Minson   Boulder, CO
  5.11-
V3 boulder problem if you sit start Oct 2, 2010
Ty Meadows
Moab, UT
Ty Meadows   Moab, UT
A scrimage heros' climb Jun 29, 2009
Riddler
Centerville, UT
 
Riddler   Centerville, UT
 
This is a pretty reasonable highball boulder problem, especially since you can get it wired on a rope first. Watch out for the back-breaking boulder at the bottom! Nov 14, 2008
David Shiembob
slc, ut
 
David Shiembob   slc, ut
 
yeah, I couldn't believe the block is gone, the hole where it was is a big hold now, so it didn't seem any harder. Oct 28, 2008
icsteveoh
salt lake city, UT
  5.10b/c
icsteveoh   salt lake city, UT
  5.10b/c
OOOOOOH BOY. As of 10/24/08 the cool block that's loose is dead. Makes for a bit harder of a topout but geeze... that hold gave that route character. I'm bummed. Oct 24, 2008
WasatchChic
Salt Lake, Utah
  5.10d
WasatchChic   Salt Lake, Utah
  5.10d
We usually link the Winky and Waxman line with the newer (meaning not in the guide)5.10'ish long line next to it. Anyone know if this has a name? Aug 6, 2008
McRae Williams  
5.11a
Fun short climb. Worth a run up. Not quite 11b, in my opinion it is a highball V2. Regardless, it is a fun little route. May 15, 2008
john richards
salt lake city UT
  5.10c
john richards   salt lake city UT
  5.10c
I have a hard time calling this more than a 10c. dont get me wrong though FUN FUN FUN. skip the first bolt. If you fall above it your gonna hit the deck anyway. Apr 21, 2008
Michael MacFadden  
  5.11a
For those who think this is rated harder than it is, there are a bunch of chalk marks in the crack off to the right of the bolt line. If you use either the crack or the rock face to the right this climb is more like an 8.

If you do the sit start and climb the bolt line (as if you were leading) and stay out of the crack it definitely feels like 5.11 moves. Sure its short, but if you had a sustained 5.9 with this section, it would definitely be rated an 11. Aug 27, 2007
Ryan Peterson
North Salt Lake, Utah
 
Ryan Peterson   North Salt Lake, Utah
 
Didn't seem too tough to me, third bolt is a spinner though, and I used that loose rock for a hold and it seemed fine.

Lost it at the top my first try, but mantled the second try and made it up. That mantle at the top makes it all worth it, great climb. Jun 30, 2007
icsteveoh
salt lake city, UT
  5.10b/c
icsteveoh   salt lake city, UT
  5.10b/c
Bolt #3 is a bit loose on this guy. Jun 13, 2007
oliver
  5.11a
oliver  
  5.11a
I would have a hard time calling that a 5.11 I would say the rating is around a 10c. Better rated as a boulder problem at V1. However rated though it is a enjoyable little problem to get on. Jun 5, 2007
glen kaplan
Salt Lake City, UT
  5.10c
glen kaplan   Salt Lake City, UT
  5.10c
that 'hold' is still there and will probably be there for a good while...

just cause it is shaky doesn't mean everyone has to get all puckered...

hell, you might as well use it as a high left foot too! Oct 24, 2006
led it last night ... the "hold" is still there and feels the same as it did 2 years ago ... from what i remember Oct 13, 2005
I heard that the "hold" is gone, but no more difficult. Sep 28, 2005
Matt Barrigar
  5.11a
Matt Barrigar  
  5.11a
Feels like an 11a - because it is so short. Any idea if there is a rating on the v scale? Aug 12, 2004
Just went up and did it again today. Be aware that the last left handhold, before the ledge is suspect. It seemed solid enough to me, but it is definitely loose. Apr 11, 2004