Type: Sport, 50 ft
FA: Ben Burnham, Gary Reynolds
Page Views: 361 total · 2/month
Shared By: Vincent Greene on Jul 3, 2004
Admins: Luke Bertelsen, JJ Schlick, Greg Opland

You & This Route

36 Opinions

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Easy to find - look for the cold shuts. Follow the shuts mostly straight up to the chains, with occasional detours (mostly to the right) to find the best holds. If you have read the description in the guidebook, you can tell this route has seen a lot of controversy. It intersects another less direct route (Of Mice and Men), which led to it being chopped shortly after it was put up. In the guidebook, it is listed as "Gripes of Wrath", but that is NOT its name. Climb them both and make up your own mind.


Bolts (spikes) with cold shuts as hangers.


Wes Turner
az / pa
Wes Turner   az / pa
both still worth doing but...of mice and men is no longer the same( you can clip a bolt on "gripes" or whatever, I never got to climb it before Gripes either) so climbing them and considering them individually is sortof impossible now casue they cross!....I can see how the FA of Mice and men would be in a chopping mood... I understand the controversy... Gripes has a couple of fun blancy moves on it though....which I did enjoy...and of mice and men would have been tougher without having the option of cliping a bolt if you felt like it. Jul 6, 2004
Forest Hill
Denver, CO
Forest Hill   Denver, CO
Ben may have been firmly in the wrong to have bolted over another route in putting this route up (crossing it multiple times!)

But since it's there, this is truly a very very fun route. Did it twice yesterday, tending to get sidetracked more onto Mice & Men while leading, and then top-roped firmly on Grips. Both lines are great great fun. Aug 2, 2004
James DeRoussel
Tucson, AZ
James DeRoussel   Tucson, AZ
This is a well-known example of what happens when someone puts up new routes with disregard for history and ethics. That said, it is also a really fun climb. Jun 22, 2008
Geir www.ToofastTopos.com   Tucson, AZ
This isn't a "both routes" scenario. The reason that this climb appears to be fun is that it's on excellent rock and has cool climbing - but it was a line that had already been done on gear.

This route should not have been put up in the first place, and it's a shame that it was rebolted with those stupid 1/2" spikes and cold shuts.

It's sad that such an excellent climb (of Mice and Men) has lost most of its flavor because ben felt the need to bolt a route right through it. Apr 22, 2009
Geir www.ToofastTopos.com   Tucson, AZ
hey rick-

you've got balls, man. i agree that existing trad lines should not be bolted. it's probably better to talk to folks before chopping, though ... people like to be involved in those kinds of decisions, and at the very least, it makes it more likely the chopped bolts will stay out. :)

i'll try the line you're describing on gear some time (and maybe crap myself!) Apr 23, 2009
A.P.T.   Truckee,Ca
This route has been here long enough for many too enjoy over the years, so removing its existence now would be kinda stupid. I'd bet a poll would lean towards leaving it alone. If a route crosses a trad route as this one does it should have been removed a long time ago.

Apr 27, 2009
A.P.T.   Truckee,Ca
Best of my knowledge 'Scott' never used Buttonhead Spikes! Also most folks I spoke with don't have very accurate info about the history of this place.If anyone has the most accurate info about the history of FA's here its Scott. Apr 27, 2009
Geir www.ToofastTopos.com   Tucson, AZ
then let the Scott speak for himself! Apr 27, 2009
1Eric Rhicard
1Eric Rhicard   Tucson
Just for the record, Ben added the bolts with Karl's okay. Unfortunately Karl may not have realized what his agreement did to a bit of a testpiece at the grade.

As far as Rickd's statement JF I think he was talking about the 5.8 to the right which according to SA was soloed by Mike Argueso before Eden Masters and SA did the bolt job.

Edited in the interest of peace.

Hell yeah Harry Potter rocks! Apr 27, 2009
A.P.T.   Truckee,Ca
Ricks MIA, Hey Rick where are ya! Apr 27, 2009
j fassett
j fassett   tucson
I deleted my comment, it makes no sense any longer. I now know what I must do...work on my putting skills!
You thought I was going to say something else, eh Geir?

JF Apr 27, 2009
Geir www.ToofastTopos.com   Tucson, AZ
hahaha!! jeff, you kill me. :) Apr 28, 2009
John Hayes
Bend, OR
John Hayes   Bend, OR
This might be a good route if it hadn't ruined "Of Mice and Men." I was so mad when I first discovered what Ben did, I threatened to chop the route and shoot out his porch light. I think it might have been Peter Nobels (or maybe Bob Kerry ?) who first chopped it; though, Ben accused me of doing it. Undaunted, Ben went right back up and added the shuts. That's why there aren't any hangers on this route. I say skip this route...there are plenty of great routes that don't encourage this kind of bad behavior. Ben might have put up some good routes around Tucson but this route just shows bad judgment and lack of consideration. You can still do "Of Mice and Men" in the old style but being able to reach over to clip a shut sure takes away the seriousness of the original route--which is too bad. Jan 7, 2010
Ryan and Jesse Morse-Brady   Lander, WY
I found this route to be fantastic route, with great moves, and sustained climbing. Though I know how controversial this route is, I really appreciate it being there to provide an opportunity for those of us not comfortable with "R" rated routes to get on this high quality section of rock. Jun 10, 2013
Jon Ruland
Tucson, AZ
Jon Ruland   Tucson, AZ
loads of respect to the folks saying this route shouldn't have been put up, but i think it's great. i don't buy into the notion that just because you can do a route incredibly dangerously and you got there first that everybody who comes after you has to do it the same way you did. Dec 1, 2014
1Eric Rhicard
1Eric Rhicard   Tucson
Hey Jon, if you believe that people don't have to do it the way the FA did then do you think we should make every route safe. Is that what you are advocating for. Do you think all routes need to be drilled into submission just so you can climb them. Do you think that there are not enough mindless clip-ups for you and others who are unwilling to develop the mental fortitude to climb routes where failure can lead to serious injury and or death. Are you encouraging and supporting the destruction of historic old scare fests.

This route was bolted with the FAs blessing so it is a moot point here. Dec 2, 2014