[Hide Comment] Why such an ugly name for such a beautiful route? May 6, 2002

[Hide Comment] Hey, some of the best places to dine are simply labeled, "Eat" on a roadside sign! Sorry, had too. Just for fun. May 6, 2002

[Hide Comment] I called it "Fat" because if you look at the porkchop-shaped slab (hence the name of the buttress) the left side of the porkchop is where the fat is, while the right side would be where the bone is (hence the name of the route "The Bone". May 6, 2002

[Hide Comment] Sorry, but this is a true Devils Lake climb.... contrived at best. You have taken variations of two different routes and run them together to call them a new route...is this really needed? May 9, 2002

[Hide Comment] "Anonymous", You are correct that this route is contrived, but it's such a nice climb I thought I'd post it so people could try one more line that they may have otherwise overlooked. I'd argue that this is a nicer line than Jacob's Ladder anyway, so why not call this a route? I'd argue that many routes that are contrived by combining two routes to make a new line are better than the two original routes were to begin with. In this case it's only partially true since "The Bone" is the best line on this formation. If you thought I added this route just to boost the site statistics, you're wrong, at least in this case. This line is truly worthy of being advertised. I've decided as a matter of principle not to call any of my contributions "FA's" since God knows virtually every conceivable line has been tried here at The Lake.

If I post a route that doesn't have a documented name, I'll make up a name for it, as should anyone else. However, if a route is posted with a newly created name, but the route has historically gone by another undocumented name, people with that knowledge should post a comment to the route to say "This route is traditionally called "Blah" you dummy." May 9, 2002

[Hide Comment] I guess it just seems weird to refer to the route as "Fat". Maybe I am set in my ways, but we always called the route "To the Right of Jacobs Ladder". Maybe we should have named it, but we didn't. I guess it is our loss. Hey, how about "Throbbing Angry Vortex of Evil"? Just an idea. May 9, 2002

[Hide Comment] Hey, we can always be silly and compromise. No one likes Tom's name of "Fat". How about "Phat"! May 9, 2002

[Hide Comment] Sounds good to me... May 10, 2002

[Hide Comment] I agree with Tom on this one. Ever been to Yosemite? I have. Heck, you don't even need to go to Yosemite to see it. However, there are thousands of routes in Yosemite. Of those routes there are hundres of variations. In those variations, I have climbed three personally, two routes join to make one new one. It just makes for something new. Something interesting. A new start with an old finish, an old start with a new finish, or both (or neither) with a different crux or something.

It isn't unusual to see two routes joined for a new one, or at least two parts of different routes to add a new twist to something old. Why not? May 12, 2002

[Hide Comment] The point, though, is that "Phat" is not a new route. We have been climbing it for years. May 12, 2002

[Hide Comment] Ah! Yes Jay. You are right. However, no one has put a name to it. Rather, no one has put a recorded name to it. You are right, but I think I have a suggestion that will appease all of us.

Tom,

Make a new "directory" and lable it "Variations" (or something). Jay is right, it isn't an FA, but the route has been "recorded" as a new variation. There is nothing documented and recorded, so have a New Variations section. I think this would be fun for climbers as they could post new twists to old routes and offer suggestions on things that are fun and may not have been tried before.

I think this is a good idea. Does every one agree with this? After all, it's Tom's recorded variation.

Also, to all: Please don't get upset with any climber that posts claiming an FA or new variation. Swartling's book stinks and is indiscriptive. Furthermore, there are over 1,600 recorded routes a Devil's Lake. "Recorded" routes. With room for more. With indiscriptive guide books and so many routes in such a small area, it becomes difficult to know what has or has not been done. Basically, most climbers know where all the "popular" routes are. For example, off the top of your head, you all know where Birthday Crack is right? What are the routes to the left? Hard to know. May 13, 2002

[Hide Comment] Actually, Tom. I noticed is says First Ascents/New Lines.

Just separate the two. Have one section for First Ascents and one for New Lines/Variations or something.

Steve May 13, 2002

[Hide Comment] Just to echo an earlier comment, "I've decided as a matter of principle not to call any of my contributions "FA's" since God knows virtually every conceivable line has been tried here at The Lake." There are surely other groups that have a big impact on climbing at Devil's Lake, but CMC members like Alex Andrews, Olle and Sue Swartling, Pete Cleveland, et al., have been climbing unnamed and unrecorded variations of climbs on every buttress in the Park, nearly every climbable weekend (weatherwise) for, in Olle's case, over 50 years. Try new-to-you routes, experiment, have fun, etc. But do realize even though something isn't in the Climber's Guide it isn't likely a first ascent if it's not Very Hard. My personal favorite variation on this buttress is the 5.7 face to the right of Jacob's Ladder. What a pretty start -- Too bad it doesn't go all the way... Aug 23, 2004