Winds of Whoopee

The photo of the cliff on page 180 (1992 guide) was taken of the FA (I think it is Perry in the photo). Rob's last name is Raker; both he and well known Canadian climber Perry Beckham can be seen on page 179. Perry is the one pointing to that sandbag Poodle Woof. Jan 28, 2003

You can avoid the jump move on the walkoff/downclimb by downclimbing a low angle handcrack just before reaching the jump. Both ways will put you at an easy foot and back chimney that reaches the ground. The jump looks a little intimidating and I busted up a heel on it with a less than perfect landing, so would recommend the handcrack (or jumping it in your approach shoes).

Route is great. Pro to #4 camalot. Dec 10, 2006

Very hard route. The crux for me was the start. The the rest of the climb was a workout all the way to the top. The wide section was just a bit to big for my fist, so an arm bar worked for me. Very steep and overhanging. Once on top, it's natural gear for anchor. The descent was difficult. We chimney climbed down on the right side of the route. Then slung our rope around a boulder and rapped the rest of the way to the ground. We retrieved our rope with out a problem. Perhaps a rappel station would be added on top for safe return to the ground? Feb 27, 2008

This was on-sight free soloed by John Bachar Jun 16, 2008

Undercling flake at crux will likely break soon, position your belayer out of the line of fire. Nov 27, 2009

It's a fun climb, but reachy first piece. I found a rappel sling at the climber's left. Go to the summit and walk pass the other 5.10s and a 5.9 climb. Scramble down to the next ledge. It's slung around a boulder. Feb 6, 2010

The undercling flake is EXTREMELY loose now and using it at all will almost certainly dislodge it. I suppose the only safe solution would be for someone to rap down and kick the thing off, which will undoubtedly affect the grade. Mar 8, 2010

The flake is definitely hanging by a hair. I would have pulled it today if my rope was not in the line of fire. I think reaching past the flake might make the route a hair hard, 11b. Nov 25, 2010

I tr soloed the route today, and on the way down, gave the flake a pull, found how loose it was, then a swift kick, which broke the bottom off. I think the route is probably harder now with the lack of a good hand, and especially foot hold there, although I had never climbed it before today. I got the bottom clean, but could not do the upper transition to the thin hands/ringlock crack with the challenging lack of good feet.

The remaining chunk of block, lodged in a 2" crack, shifts scarily when weighted, but is too solid to remove by hand. I left it in its place. Sep 27, 2011

A tough ethical call here, but it seems to me that cleaning the block altogether may expose a nice hand crack in it's place, possibly restoring the route to it's original difficulty and a higher level of safety. Not my place to make the call and it would probably require a hammer,

There is no "call" here, you don't aggressively clean established routes with hammers. I think the difference between pulling on a hold and kicking it are very different. The belayer is well out of the way of the line of this route and likely in no danger. Next time let nature take its course. I think you'd be surprised at how much stress a hold can take if applied in a thoughtful way as compared to a "swift kick".

Many areas in SoCal are modified, glued, and generally beat into submission. That includes Malibu, New Jack, The Quarry, and others. It's not a secret and you can hold a separate discussion regarding that. Josh doesn't need that type of action, and talk of "may expose a nice hand crack" show that you don't understand the area. WoW wasn't gonna kill anyone via rock fall, of that I'm pretty certain. But your "swift kick" made sure that no-one will climb it the same again.

But then again, ignore my muttering above. "You've been climbing since 2009 and are addicted." I'm sure you've come to realize what holds need to be kicked and those that don't. Sep 27, 2011

+1 what Murf said. Sep 28, 2011

The remainder of the block is definitely loose and shifty. Use caution as pulling out that block could result in a nasty fall Nov 21, 2011

It's not a troll, the block is gone. By posting here, I was attempting to be straightforward and transparent about my actions. I kicked the fragile block in the interest of removing the potential for an unsuspecting belayer's death. Based upon my evaluation of the fall line, the previous comments, the ease of removing the block, and my finite experience, I feel the action was warranted.

My comment about the current status of the route, as quoted in Murf's comment, was expressed poorly, and I regret that. It was intended to be descriptive, not to imply a call to action. I apologize, and have edited it to reflect this. Nov 30, 2011

Loose holds removed by hand or foot;....OK by me......removed with a hammer or crowbar (unless it's gonna kill someone....).....please don't.......Loose rock is dangerous;....be careful while climbing... Dec 7, 2011

Well, as my proposal of a "safe solution" might have influenced what happened later, I will say that I thought about kicking the flake off myself (in fact, I remember thinking that simply standing on the flake would do the trick) after climbing above it, but wasn't confident I could avoid my belayer, not to mention that I selfishly decided to let someone else deal with the problem since I was enjoying my own ascent. I knew that, as many experienced climbers can attest, sometimes you don't really know how loose a hold is until you decide to see how much force it can handle. And once you start pushing that threshold, things can get messy and sometimes you wish you had never decided to F with it. But I think there are a whole lot of routes at Joshua Tree that would never have gotten done if climbers got squeamish about yarding on shit or kicking the rock to remove loose flakes. And sometimes when you kick off a big loose flake on shitty quartz monzonite, you end up with some garbage behind it that you'd better take care of before bragging about your fine route. And before people start getting too self-righteous on here, they should consider that there are an awful lot of sport climbs at Josh that were put up by some pretty respectable climbers, and the holds on these climbs undoubtedly saw a bit of hammering, however subtle. Or even if it was a pair of steel-toed boots, where exactly do we draw the line? I gotta say I reject the idea that the only justifiable way of removing a dangerously-loose hold is via a leader fall, even at a place with old-school ethics. Thanks for cleaning up the route, Simon. Jan 23, 2012

Tyler you're just confusing the issue.

Establishing new routes on less then perfect rock does involve cleaning. The line between finger tips and crowbars is huge, and not relevant to this discussion.

When discussing routes established over 25 years ago (or even a year later), let things happen naturally. If you feel the route is unsafe, don't climb it. Jan 24, 2012

The remaining section of block seems solid, all three in our party yarded on the thing last weekend. It wiggles, but didn't pull out with my 200lb frame. The piece that Simon "kicked" off is about 1'x1'x2", and is lying at the base. Jan 30, 2012

Simon and Tyler....good for you. Whether trad. or sport, if you're going to put up a route, make it safe. Mar 1, 2013

But the fact still remains that the climb was fine as it was... if you want safety guaranteed, stay home... Mar 2, 2013

A crowbar Ben? Wow, great advice, I know that our friends at the NPS love when we use crowbars on decades old climbs (or even new ones for that matter). Also, my math is rusty, but I'm not sure that hands and feet can create the same amount of force as a crowbar? Which if you're leading this one is the only way you'd pull the damn thing off. Mar 6, 2013

What crowbar, murf??? I see where posters have suggested pulling on it, yarding on the thing, steel-toed boots, and kicking the loose undercling flake, but where is there ANY reference to a crowbar, except where you, twice, refer to one? A Freudian slip, perhaps? Nov 17, 2013