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Red Rocks Fatality

Brad White · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 25

I would not personally recommend Andy Kirkpatrick's book as a beginner book. 

Alan L · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2019 · Points: 20
Brad White wrote:

I would not personally recommend Andy Kirkpatrick's book as a beginner book. 

Agreed. Not the best for beginner climbers, but for grigri rappelling and other techniques it is a great resource. Like I said, if you want to get deep in the weeds on technical stuff it's great 

Big Ears · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2011 · Points: 30
Brad White wrote:

Stephen, totally agree with your post. 

Some of these systems such as two climbers rapping simultaneously, using a knot block to rap on a single line, etc., which are taught as being faster or more efficient, are not suitable for beginners because they are unnecessarily complex. They also seem to cause a disproportionate share of accidents in our community. 

I would extend this last statement and say that these complicated systems are inappropriate for every-day use. I know that climbing media and such would have us believe that we always need to be going faster and lighter. But especially if you're cragging, is the time saved by simul-rapping with two climbers really worth the increased complexity compared to one climber at a time??

K.I.S.S. !!

It's good to know these systems in a pinch, for when going faster or lighter is actually safer. But I believe that guides and the climbing media teach these type of complicated strategies too freely, without the caveat that they are more complicated, and therefore may carry greater risk. I understand that not all guides do this, and that I am generalizing. This is also not any kind of statement about this particular accident. 

Climbing is always dangerous. Best to not forget that. 

I understand what you are saying but where does practice come in? If 99% of the time you are rappelling one way (double strand/ tube style), then How do you become proficient in the other styles.  Seems to me that practicing an advanced technique only 1% of the time and then deploying it when stress levels are high is a recipe for disaster.


Ive only “had” to use a reepschnur 3 times in 25 years of climbing.  But regularly practiced advanced rappel techniques roughly 25% of the time, it always felt completely normal when i “had” to use them (reepschnur, muenter, simul, etc)


edit: i realize that you specifically didnt say “99% of the time rappel extended tube double strand” but others up thread have thrown that out.  And I just couldnt disagree more, unless you are talking about single pitch sport climbers. And let’s be real, single pitch sport climbers overwhelmingly choose to be lowered these days.

Alex Fletcher · · Las Vegas · Joined May 2016 · Points: 252

She was my first climbing partner. She and I learned how to go climbing outside together. I climbed my first multipitch with her.

During that time, I decided to become a guide and she was extremely supportive. Now it’s my full time profession doing this climbing thing.

She was an amazing person. It’s a really heavy feeling that she’s gone.

We all make mistakes. I have a few close calls myself that I’m not proud of. A lot of us do, I’m sure.

As a Las Vegas local guide, I understand the factors involved in this accident very well. I’ve even guided this route specifically many times.

None of that brings her back home to her family.

I’m sorry Micah. May you rest in Peace. 

Daniel Joder · · Barcelona, ES · Joined Nov 2015 · Points: 0

I am so sorry to hear of this accident. I am not particularly religious (call me agnostic-spiritual), but there is a phrase that always comes to mind when I hear of such tragic events: “But for the grace of God go I”. During my aviation career as well, upon hearing of an accident, my head would fill with that phrase. I, like many who post here, have had some close calls that could have gone either way. Why am I still here and others are not? It’s a mystery. I am just as vulnerable to a tragic mistake as anyone else. May she rest in peace and may all who knew her find peace. 

ErikaNW · · Golden, CO · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 410
Alex Fletcher wrote:

She was my first climbing partner. She and I learned how to go climbing outside together. I climbed my first multipitch with her.

During that time, I decided to become a guide and she was extremely supportive. Now it’s my full time profession doing this climbing thing.

She was an amazing person. It’s a really heavy feeling that she’s gone.

We all make mistakes. I have a few close calls myself that I’m not proud of. A lot of us do, I’m sure.

As a Las Vegas local guide, I understand the factors involved in this accident very well. I’ve even guided this route specifically many times.

None of that brings her back home to her family.

I’m sorry Micah. May you rest in Peace. 

I’m so sorry for your loss. I lost my best friend of 37 years in December (the Mt Cook accident in NZ). The grief is intense, but has become a little less so as I focus on good memories. It still takes my breath away at the most unexpected moments. At his memorial, another friend said his mantra is ‘We no longer have the privilege of his company, but we have the privilege of his memory.’ Those words have helped me some and maybe they will be useful to those grieving Micah. I hope all involved can find peace and support as they work through this trauma. 

grug g · · SLC · Joined Jul 2022 · Points: 0
Ian Dorko wrote:

it's really not that complicated. it also doesn't look like you have that much experience doing long routes with lots of rappelling, so maybe lay off the bold black and white "do this don't do this" type advice? everything has trade offs and as people gain more experience find systems that work for them and their partners that meet their criteria for safety, simplicity and efficiency, there really is no one-size-fits-all solution. I use different techniques and approaches for anchoring, placing lead gear and descending depending on the route, weather and who I'm climbing with all the time.

Site doesn't have half my tics - ive done plenty of rappelling. I agree that black and white isn't always right. But be conscientious of the beginners that read these forums and are eager to learn "fancy techniques". 

Remember the technique you are advocating for played a role in this fatality. 

M M · · Maine · Joined Oct 2020 · Points: 2
grug g wrote:

Site doesn't have half my tics - ive done plenty of rappelling. I agree that black and white isn't always right. But be conscientious of the beginners that read these forums and are eager to learn "fancy techniques". 

Remember the technique you are advocating for played a role in this fatality. 

Life played a big role too, being human as well

J B · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2022 · Points: 0

Sadly all too often fatal accidents happen rappelling or lowering on even the simplest of single pitch climbs and the lesson to be learned is always the same-Check, double check and if necessary triple check that everything is set up correctly before going down, even if you are on a hurry

Bill Lawry · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,809

… and as has been said - and I have experienced, it can become simply a really difficult battle with the cold.

Also, KISS for long days in the mountains.

MP · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 2

I find it fascinating that, when I meet european climbers (mostly french), the almost all rappel the same way (double strand, extended atc, backup prusik in use), whereas the americans I meet all seem to have learned a different way to rappel (biner block! pull cord! atc vs grigri! backup or no! simul or no!). 

I wonder if the pedogical system for climbing in europe does a better job of teaching people a homogeneous way to do things, whereas american climbers are mostly left to their own to figure things out. There's a certain value to just having everyone learn to rappel the exact same way, even if there are theoretically other techniques that are sometimes better/safer. 

Cosmic Hotdog · · California · Joined Sep 2019 · Points: 265

Let's please leave this thread be and not bump it again. If you'd like to discuss rappel methods in a recently active thread:

Use this thread instead

Bruno Schull · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 0
MP wrote:

I wonder if the pedogical system for climbing in europe does a better job of teaching people a homogeneous way to do things, whereas american climbers are mostly left to their own to figure things out.

That's a good question for several reasons. 

First, simply because it would be interesting to learn about the teaching practices and progressions in different countries. 

Second, because one could ask the question, "What's the better way to learn?  With guided progression?  Or on your own?"

Certaintly, there are strong feelings on either side.

I can say that after a long day ice climbing in Cogne, Italy, I spent an afternoon hanging out with a group of British and Polish climbers.  The Eastern European climbers were fascinated about how we choose climbs. "How do you decide what to climb," they asked.  We were dumbfounded--we couldn't even understand the question.  "What do you mean?  We just look at a guidebook, or talk to people, or walk up the valley, and choose a climb!"  The Eastern European climbers had driven accross Europe in a van rented by their climbing club.  Back home, they meet as a club every week or two weeks, usually in a bar, library, or small spot in town, with the older climbers in the club.  The older climbers tell the younger climbers what climbs they should try next, what they are ready for, and so on.  If the younger climbers went out and did something way beyond their skill level, it would be strongly frowned upon, not really understood.  It's a totally different approach.  They had a check-list for Cogne, climbs they were supposed to try, in a specific order.  As much as our system was foreign to them, their system was foreign to us 

BUT

In this case it seems that both climbers were experienced. 

They made a simple mistake, an easy mistake.  

Yes, the chance of making this mistake could have been mitigated by using a different system, but if we focus too much on systems, or on teaching methods, we loose sight of the fact that these mistakes can and do happen to all climbers, from every country. 

We are all human.

grug g · · SLC · Joined Jul 2022 · Points: 0
Cosmic Hotdog wrote:

Let's please leave this thread be and not bump it again. If you'd like to discuss rappel methods in a recently active thread:

Use this thread instead

Sorry boss, you aint the MP sheriff. But that is a good thread for a detailed biner block discussion. 

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