American Fork Canyon rescue operation - rappel knot gets stuck

https://kjzz.com/news/local/climbers-rescued-after-knot-in-equipment-halts-descent-off-utah-county-cliffside

2 climbers stuck while rappelling in AFC Utah. What route was this? Why could they not resolve the issue?

grug g wrote:

https://kjzz.com/news/local/climbers-rescued-after-knot-in-equipment-halts-descent-off-utah-county-cliffside

2 climbers stuck while rappelling in AFC Utah. What route was this? Why could they not resolve the issue?

Just general incompetence in my opinion. Why not just re lead the pitch on the other end of the rope Obviously it was long enough…

Are Rescue Skills Necessary?

Are self rescue skills aid?

Todd Jenkins wrote:

Are Rescue Skills Necessary?

Haha dude you beat me to it. This post and the one you linked are literally both on the front page right now. 

Knowing how to fix a stuck rope situation is the absolute bare minimum self rescue technique somebody should know. 

Todd Jenkins wrote:

Are Rescue Skills Necessary?

The interview on Fox was all anyone needs to know here, it was like watching a clip from a stoner movie

https://www.fox13now.com/news/local-news/northern-utah/rescue-underway-for-stranded-rock-climbers-near-alpine-loop

Parker Garrett wrote:

Just general incompetence in my opinion. Why not just re lead the pitch on the other end of the rope Obviously it was long enough…

Doesn't that depend if the knot got stuck in a crack on the way up vs in the rap ring? 

Parker Garrett wrote:

Just general incompetence in my opinion. Why not just re lead the pitch on the other end of the rope Obviously it was long enough…

Agree on the very high likelihood of the first sentence… curious about the last sentence, how exactly is it “obvious?”

Let's try to be nice.  Those two are probably MP Admins.

It seems like they could have re-led the pitch free if it was half a rope length or less long, or if the pitch was longer than half a rope length, they could have ascended the rope while on belay and placing/clipping gear while ascending, so if they fall they only take a leader fall.

To me it does seem like they could have re-led the pitch using the other end of the rope, because they mention it getting stuck on the stopper knot when pulling the rope, and it didn’t sound like they were using a tag line. Meaning they were doing a single rope rappel, and they had already pulled up to the stopper knot down to the belay ledge with them. So, the distance from the previous rappel station to the current one would have to be half a rope length, or less. And they already had that amount of rope with them on the ledge since they pulled all the way to the stopper knot.

edit: I guess one possibility I thought of where this would be hard would be if they only had sport gear and were on a dedicated rappel route, so there are no bolts the length of the pitch. Or alternatively if it was a dedicated rappel route after a trad climb that doesn’t have gear options or would require aid gear to lead it.

I have not been to the area so I am just speculating 

Chris, all true but if we ignore the fox article (wasn’t posted until after the comment by PG), then I think it’s decidedly *not* obvious that they could have re-led the pitch. Sure, I can think of 2-3 ways to make it back to the anchor, relatively safely, but that’s probably not in the skillset of climbers like this situation. 

Christian Hesch wrote:

Chris, all true but if we ignore the fox article (wasn’t posted until after the comment by PG), then I think it’s decidedly *not* obvious that they could have re-led the pitch. Sure, I can think of 2-3 ways to make it back to the anchor, relatively safely, but that’s probably not in the skillset of climbers like this situation. 

Oh yeah, agree it wasn’t obvious to me what the deal was until I heard the interview either. For example if they were using a tag line but if they had pulled enough of the tag line to not be able to reach the rappel side of the climbing rope, but also couldn’t reach the other end of the rope tied to the tag line, not sure what they would do. I’m not going to ascend/lead with the tag line because not sure it would hold me in a big fall if suddenly the rope comes unstuck.

Perhaps an overly-accommodating attitude of the local SAR resource also contributes to a low level of personal responsibility?

I thought climbing became a safe space over the past few years..

Christian Hesch wrote:

Chris, all true but if we ignore the fox article (wasn’t posted until after the comment by PG), then I think it’s decidedly *not* obvious that they could have re-led the pitch. Sure, I can think of 2-3 ways to make it back to the anchor, relatively safely, but that’s probably not in the skillset of climbers like this situation. 

I made my comment after watching the interview on KSL.com our local news site.

Rope got stuck in stopper knot in the rap rings.
This means it was a rap that they used a single rope on, meaning less than half a rope length long, meaning more than half the rope was under them when they got it stuck, meaning they could have re-led it.

seems pretty obvious to me.. just saying...

The route in question was 30 at the B52 wall, you wouldn’t be able to relead all the pitches with a stuck rope. 

Those boys were a danger to themselves and needed to be rescued. There is no additional analysis needed. In over head, called for mama and mama came running.

The specific reason is actually beside the point. The boys could not deal and could not take care of themselves.

Todd Jenkins wrote:

Let's try to be nice.  Those two are probably MP Admins.

More like reddit

The advantage to SAR when subjects call early is the lessened requirement to carry as many body bags.

I don’t know the climb they would have to do, if it goes up directly enough for half a rappel rope to be enough. And, as said above: is the climb up the rap a sport or trad climb? Do they have gear and experience to climb up?

They expressed gratitude very well and thoroughly. Kudos for responses on both sides.

  mountainproject.com/route/1…

I don’t know the specifics of this route, but would it be possible that the rappel route follows plum line, so they are able to skip pitches on the way down, but then the climb traverses quite a bit, so even with half a rope length they wouldn’t be able to climb back up to the original rappel station?

In that case they could maybe have enough to make an intermediate anchor, belay the second up, and then keep repeating until you’re back at your stuck knot?

Can you all think of legitimate situations where they wouldn’t be able to self rescue by re-leading some of the pitches?