Various Thoughts About North Bend 5.12s

I get messages about my thoughts about various north bend 5.12s. I don't know if I have sent the most 5.12s in north bend but I have yet to meet anyone who has been on and/or sent than me. 90% of the climbs I detail on here I have sent. I am going to have three sections, so people don't think I am biased towards my climbs or my friends climbs.

My climbs/things I placed bolts in/rebolted/somehow deeply involved with: 

My best climb:
Shih tzu 19: Apex predator at Cot20s (Crag of the 20s) I don’t even know what to say about this route because I love it so much Video

Other climbs of mine I would actually climb again:
wait time at Helms Deep: this is my highest rated climb on mp, it’s a sea of jugs for 80 feet, very reminiscent of the red, it stays dry for awhile in the rain, the bad, it isn’t really a proud feature just a sea of holds in the middle of the wall and the bolts are so close it is a via ferrata at times Video
mo mo mo at the Woods: totally unique for Washington, feels like a smith rock climb, the bad, there is a no hands ledge at bolt 9 and takes at least one day to dry, is perma drawed but a little scary
shih Tzu jiu jitsu 3: return of the princess at helms deep: sustained v2 climbing for 110 feet without any amazing rests, dirty and a little chossy up by the anchor Video

Climbs I think will be around 3.3 to 3.5 stars on mountain project:
Shih Tzu jiu-jitsu 25: Skyfall at the actual cave: there are 6 very very important knee bars, the final crux is wild, downside you will probably deck if you blow any clip, start seeps for like a month
Golden Toddler Circumnavigation in the woods: a double arete climb that is absolutely striking, downside no hands rest half way, anchor is hard to clip, soft for the grade, easy to hang draws
Saurmans army at Helms Deep: this climb only exists because of Aaron, a great little boulder problem with massive glory jugs to a slightly overhanging no hands rest Video

Climbs that will hover around 3 stars
Shih Tzu Jiu-jitsu 11: puppy madness in the woods: wildly cool arete, the bad absolute choss for 20 feet if you stay 6 feet right of the bolt line
Elijah’s woodie at helms deep: reachy sustained glory jugs and the coolest flake jug in north bend Video
Shih Tzu jiu jitsu 17 urination equation at Cot20s: first 3 bolts crumbly choss, then some steep climbing to a v4 to a weird rest then the most tantalizing v3 where it’s super easy to blow it at the anchor video
The vax-scene at Cot20s: double dihedral with deviously complex movement it’s only 45 feet
Mrs. Thicc/Mr. Big at the actual cave- v0 glory jugs the whole way with terrible feet, Mrs. Thicc is better simply because there is less rope drag Video
Wentztastical/Furious: Wentz is the better variation, it’s a great boulder problem followed by a cool knee bar rest (most utilize the knee bar) into another great boulder problem video

Climbs worth doing if you are a local and have run out of climbs: 
Lawnmower man, easy to set top rope on, short approach, pretty cool and subtle moves about as good 30 feet of climbing gets pretty mossy Video
Positive vibrations/Bikini girls with turbo drills (bikini isn’t that good): this thing has a bunch of knee bars, most the holds are absolute glory jugs but it’s super reachy, like climbing a moon board traverse
Attitude Adjustment at Canopy: Amazing movement, I still haven't sent this one but it is super fun and really hard

Climbs worth doing if you have done all the “local” climbs:
Chode castration in the woods: this is essentially a via ferrata incredibly easy to hang draws on, the belay is kinda off balance, the bottom is dirty Video
Double take 2 in the Woods: hard hard crimps, clipping is impossible and the top is kinda scary
Cleaning the Porta Jon in the Woods: Really cool back flagging and flagging for about 3 bolts, it is very reminiscent of its neighbor 'state of perplexity' Video
Wolf on choss street in the black forest: absolutely perplexing boulder problems easy to hang a top rope though the rope doesn’t run great Video
98.8% shih Tzu in the black forest: A very very thin face climb with improbable looking holds 40 feet easy to top rope by climbing nearby 5.11 or TR solo off the anchor at the top of the wall
Puget power at canopy: two v3/v4 boulder problems that will destroy your tips, gets quite mossy, maybe the best top rope solo 5.12 in north bend video
Shih Tzu jiu jitsu 4: Fellowship of the paw at helms deep: a weird mantle v5 at the third bolt into the best 5.11 climbing at helms but overall probably the worst 12 at helms Video
S.T.D route at the Actual cave: easy 5.10 climbing into a v4 dries pretty fast
Shih Tzus 12 at World Wall 2: weird underclings into absolutely trash feet, then you do these weird overhanging slab moves, this is one of the tallest world wall 2 climbs Video
Shih Tzu jiu jitsu 420 at Canopy: chode cometh in the night: kinda scary, terrible top rope, hard to hang draws the movement is novel
Youth Beats Experience at Windfall Wall: A v4 boulder problem into so steep glory jug choss, if you fall at the anchor you might get impaled by a tree Video
Actually Maggie at the actual cave: Probably the only 12- where you spend the majority of the time horizontal, it has perma draws but is a little chossy and dirty still
Cyanide/Big Cyanide at the actual cave: Shawn and Daniel helped rebolt this but skyfall is simply the best variation, the rope drag alone unless you do shennagains makes this kinda miserable
Paradise Lost at World Wall 2: A v6 boulder problem followed by 12a climbing. Probably a pretty big sandbag. The rock quality isn't great.
Golden Toddler Direct in the Woods: This is the more direct to golden toddler circumnav, you essentially get a v4/5 that guards the chains
Call Collect at helms: Aboslutely brutal crux you can only try once or twice a session, there is a huge rest that takesaway from the climbing and makes it a little scary would be lower of my recommendations at helms

Climbs not worth doing:
Pinching the loaf: I broke off every usable hold
The bomb: I broke off every usable hold and removed the anchor

Ill start to add my friends climbs then all the other north bend 5.12s

Climbs Bolted/Affiliated with my friends in someway:

Best Climbs:
Square Root of All Evil at COT20s: A layback over hanging 45 degree flake for 60 feet, it is absolutely wild. I think it should be a contender for best climbs in North Bend just for the novelty of it alone.
Dieing on the Vine at Helms Deep: 115 feet of in your face climbing, amazing rock, with wild features, probably the most intimidating bolt spacing at helms but it really isn't that bad 
Authentic Experience at Helms Deep: An absolute sea of jugs with a bunch of marginal but good rests quite steep as well

Climbs that I think will be noteworthy:
Corruption at Helms Deep: Maybe the most solid rock of any North Bend climb, it is the anti style of north bend climbers with tricky and trustworthy footwork
Feature Shock at the Snake: Imagine if Ten Gallon buckets at smith had a 5.12a baby. This thing is wild and I have never climbed anything in north bend that is a bunch of Huecos
Offspring at Overhaul: Absolutely crazy position, I believe is now perma drawed. You either chimney or show pony with knee bars to a jug crack while 80 feet off the deck, ropes get stuck and getting to the belay requires some 4th class scrambling
Hypnotoad in the black forest: Similar crux to pyscho, just absolutely flawless movement from bottom to top, it is a little chossy but I think most the hand holds should stay on, this seems like it will be the goblet of 12cs (although I think it is half a star better)

Climbs I think will hover around 3.3 - 3.6 stars:

Isengard Unleashed at Helms: Very forgettable opening climbing to an amazing and dynamic toss, one of the more bouldery helms climbs, it kinda just ends in the middle of the wall, but there will be harder extensions one day
Second Breakfast/Deep Breakfast at Helms: Very bouldery, the bottom boulder problem is kinda scary for your shins but the top boulder problem is among the best I have ever done on a rope

Climbs I think will see sporadic traffic over the coming years and will end up being 3 star climbs

Protomolcule at the snake: It has permas, the climb is just kinda on the whole way
Uruk-Hai: Pretty cool boulder problem off the deck

Climbs I would do if you sent all the good local climbs

Mosstrosity at Canopy: I would highly recommend climbing renaissance at world wall 2 before this, I would not be suprised by regular pully injuries on this climb
Death by Microplastics at Canopy: This is essentially a 5.10 into a v5 into a 5.10 over the course of 30 feet, it will really favor boulders
A-Team Arete: Maybe the purest arete climb in north bend, from bottom to top it stays on you
Manflesh at helms: This climb is kinda unfinished but has exquisite boulder problems but there is only 40 feet of climbing at the grade and one of the lessor helms routes
Boil and Mash Em at Helms: If you are a trad dad at the edge of 5.12 sport climbing this is problem the best helms climb for you. It is the lowest angle helms climb.
Dungeons of Orthanc at Helms: Great warm up, lots of good rests, it is pretty chossy for the last 10 feet
Atmospheric River at COT20s: Belay is pretty terrible though it has been improved, it has an absolutely disgusting opening boulder problem off the deck, from bolt 4 and on, the climb is pretty great and steep, the bolts are quite close on this

Climbs I would do if you sent all the local climbs:

Bridge of Khazad-dum: Steep, extremely chossy and seeps, movement is great and would make for a great picture. 

It's awesome to see all this development going on.  These routes look amazing, almost makes me miss Seattle!  I caught your thread on fixing up Actual Cave/Amazonia...it's crazy those areas fell in to disuse, they were among our go to afterwork crags for the REI crew back in the mid 90's.

p hodges wrote:

It's awesome to see all this development going on.  These routes look amazing, almost makes me miss Seattle!  I caught your thread on fixing up Actual Cave/Amazonia...it's crazy those areas fell in to disuse, they were among our go to afterwork crags for the REI crew back in the mid 90's.

Thanks, I have a lot more information to add still and more of my own climbs! Its wild that people used to train at REI, that thing is like $20 to climb once now. I am actually kinda surprised that more climbs were not bolted in the cave until now. 

Saving this section for North Bend climbs my friends are not associated with. 

North Bend 5.12s not bolted by me or my friends (I do text Leland and Burdo from time to time but most these climbs have been long established):

I am not trying to be mean here, but if you go up something where there are people waiting, please don't take longer than an hour. Most the 12+s at world wall, 50 to 60% of them are 5.11. 

Best Climbs:
Propaganda at world wall: This thing is techy and then becomes steep, it is by far the most sustained of the 12+ with exception of Cali. The bad parts about it, most the bolts are spinners, the first 15 is a 5th class solo where sometimes you have to go under other parties ropes and unclip adjacent climbers, new holds keep appearing, the line for this climb is terrible. The line is so bad for this route that after waiting 3.5 hours for 2 people, it propelled me to bolt over 50 routes in one year because I was so sick of humanity
Rainy Day Women at world wall: This is listed as a classic for Washington state, so if you think it isnt great IDK what to tell you. It consistently steep with close bolts and permas. The bad, line is terrible generally people on this climb have either done it 100 times or have never climbed harder than 10d. It has a total no hands rest that is large enough to sleep on and another nearly no hands rest before the crux.
Lay of the Land in the woods: I believe this is the highest rated 12- in North Bend. It is absolutely breath taking feature on the best rock. The bad, it is not sustained at all maybe even only 10+ through the first 7 bolts. You can french free it and its probably only 10+. The crux is clipping the anchor for some.
Orgasmatron at world wall 2: Sustained v1 climbing and my favorite 12- in north bend. The bad, the dubious nature of the bolts on it, the bottom is seepy choss or kinda contrived, there isnt really a good warm up (though there will be soon). 

Climbs that are very good and most North Bend climbers should get on:
Technoringie at world wall: great boulder problem and probably the tallest 12+, the bad: line is terrible, mostly 5.11 climbing with great rests/a couple of no hands, the way this climb seeps is annoying, from the ground the holds can look dry but are not
Psychosomatic at world wall: Great boulder problem right at the end of the climb. The bad: I hate leaving the ground its a little scary and awkward with 200 backpacks and people in the way, the first 6 bolts isn't very fun and seeps
Hydrophobia: awesome upper headwall that tests both your delicate climbing skills and roof pulling skills. The bad: Humanity and the most important holds seep and it doesnt really get any sun in Nov, Dec or January. I believe you can do the crux with a no hands horizontal knee bar but I really need to go back for the redpoint. 

Climbs that would be Classics at almost any climbing area:
Blade Runner: Amazing rock, amazing boulder problem solving. Has a terrible belay, is short, and extremely condition dependent.
My Sorrow Bleeds With Such Delight: Good rock, great delicate sequences with pretty in your face climbing the whole way not very tall
Empty Martyr Breeding Room/Empty It Remains: Starting hold broke off so the start is awkward and hard but really great movement like its neighbor not very tall
Inverted Rain Ascending: Crazy novel beta not very tall.

Climbs that would be classic if you can overlook one significant flaw:
Scarlett Letter/Renissance: Amazing movement, almost permantly dry. The bad, the origin of a few of the holds
Webelo: Amazing movement and incredibly sustained. The bad, the origin of a few of the holds
Goblet: Great movement and steep big moves. You kinda merge into culture shock and could pretty easily just climb the top of culture shock and traverse back in. It also seeps quite bad at the start
Skullduggery: Amazing movement with an incredibly complex boulder problem. It is quite short, the belay is maybe the worst I have ever had for a single pitch climb and a tree is growing into the anchor.
Crawling from the wreckage: Beautiful movement and incredibly flowy jugs. The bad, the origin of most the holds, long approach. It is permadrawed.
Stihl Fingers: Great rock, with cool bouldery moves and great position. It is the former guidebook cover. The bad, extremely short.

Climbs that would be fun to do if in the area:
Cultureshock: great 50 feet of power endurance, perma'd recently by Daniel, terrible lines, lots of people doing interesting stuff to hang a top rope on this route
State of perplexity: pretty trashy climbing for the first 3 bolts (like everything in this section of the woods) then a pretty novel boulder problem, easy to hang a top rope on (I think all the routes in this section of the woods are about the same).
Hang it out to dry: crux broke so it is way easier now, interesting 11- climbing up to a no hands rest ledge then a v4/v5 boulder problem, you can really only work the boulder problem on lead
Bust a Rhythm: Great and mildly complex dihedral climbing, way way better than bust a move

Climbs that I would do if I have done most the local climbs:
Digitalis: the crux is at bolt 3, and then maybe 11a to the anchor
The warm up: A little chossy, not quite as good as the goblet. It is now partially perma'd

Climbs that I would do if I have done most local climbs:
Viagro: Its kinda a squeeze job, very hard to figureout the crux on lead, has kinda a scary clip
Rude Road: Fun little boulder problem with crux clipping bolt 3
Under Arrest: Fun little boulder problem that is a bit taller than rude road, people often TR this from steep street
Franklins Tower: Fun little boulder problem that is on TR if you stick clip
Little Big Man: Not PG13, gear on it is fine, the crux is mostly protected by bolts, the hardest move is getting off the ground
Sweet Tooth: Two interesting boulder problems separated by good rests, it is still a little chossy
Slug Lover: The beta for the boulder problem could tear your glute. This thing is pretty chossy in an actually scary way for most climbers. I am pretty sure a hold will break and the climb will become 11+ or 5.13.

Climbs not worth doing:
Bust a move: Bust a Rhythm is so much better, if you can do the boulder on bust a move you can def get up bust a rhythm. I believe the anchor for this climb was added after the fact, I would chop the current anchor for this climb. 

Just rewrite the guidebook already ya puppy monster!! :)

someone wrote a comment about this for index and this was my response
The person best served to write the index equivalent was michal. I’m pretty sure he would have just had the list and said, “isn’t that hard probably 11d.”

First of the grade climbs:

5.12a:
The crux is on TR: Franklins tower/Magicians Long to See
Short Boulder Problems: Rude Road/ Under Arrest/Lawnmower
All Perma'd with very very close bolts: Rainy Day/ Culture shock/Wait time/Mr. Big/Mrs. Thicc/ Lay of the Land
Manageable to hang a top rope on: Wolf on Choss Street/ 98.8% Shih Tzu/ Lawnmower Man
Very very close bolts: Shih Tzu Jiu-Jitsu 11 (only 11c really)/Concentrated Moisture,/ The Vax-scene
Always Dry or Almost Always Dry: Rainy Day (in the summer it doesnt really get wet from rain but does seep quite bad in January)/Wait time (only ever wet after multiple inches of rain, I have climbed it many times in pretty heavy rain)
Dries incredibly fast/ good climb to do in January: 98.8% Shih Tzu and wolf on choss street
Notably soft for the grade: Culture Shock, Magician Longs to See (every 11d becomes 12a in North Bend) and Shih Tzu Jiu Jitsu Puppy Madness (I don't mean to disparage anyone's accomplishments but if you were to ask people what the softest climbs of the grade are I think it would be these)

Things I would not do and would tell you is a bad idea to your face:
Top roping Mr. Big or anything in the actual cave, its a bad idea, your partner might deck
Top roping at helms in general is a bad idea, the routes are so long that boulder problem starts are more dangerous with rope stretch, most my anchors are also single lower offs
Trying to top rope a climb at nevermind by traversing in from another climb, it is way easier to just stick clip up your project
Thinking 12- is dry at world wall in the middle of winter, Rainy day is really the only hope for a 12- climber in the dead of winter, but Abo, Bad guy and Physco wussy are often dry enough.

Shawn S wrote:

Just rewrite the guidebook already ya puppy monster!! :)

^^^^^^^^!

- TRT wrote: Thinking 12- is dry at world wall in the middle of winter, Rainy day is really the only hope for a 12- climber in the dead of winter

Doesn't Viagro stay pretty dry, too? 

Either way, for the 12- climber looking for something dry to do on WW in the middle of winter, climbing Hadley's Roof to the roof, but not over it, is an excellent 12- that stays completely dry all year long. If I'm remembering correctly, it's also perma'd and there are two bolts in the roof that almost feel like you're clipping an "anchor." And no one is ever on it!

Chris Stocking wrote:

Doesn't Viagro stay pretty dry, too? 

Either way, for the 12- climber looking for something dry to do on WW in the middle of winter, climbing Hadley's Roof to the roof, but not over it, is an excellent 12- that stays completely dry all year long. If I'm remembering correctly, it's also perma'd and there are two bolts in the roof that almost feel like you're clipping an "anchor." And no one is ever on it!

Actually it doesnt stay as dry as one might think. I have only climbed it once while dry, but in the winter it is generally dry enough to at least work, boulder problem 2 and 3 get quite wet. Given the crowds at the ledge some of the harder climbs should get midway anchors. 

Which would you propose putting midway anchors on? I can't think of many other than Hadley's that make sense but don't already have them. Enigma, maybe? 

- TRT wrote:

Actually it doesnt stay as dry as one might think. I have only climbed it once while dry, but in the winter it is generally dry enough to at least work, boulder problem 2 and 3 get quite wet. Given the crowds at the ledge some of the harder climbs should get midway anchors. 

You wanna add midway anchors to some climbs but chop bust the move anchors?! I won’t stand for the slander!!! Bust the move is a great climb, and a very great warm up, bust the rhythm is an okay climb but a terrible neck tweaking, vomit inducing warmup.

That aside I appreciate the list. What do you think are the top 5ish 5.12-13s that stay dry in the winter?  I still have never been to WWII so I’m wanting to check that out this winter, but I’m curious how helms deep will be too. 

Wrt adding more mid anchors it seems like the highway congestion problem. You’ll create more induced demand and likely just lead to yet more congestion on the ledge. The throughput may go up slightly, but also having more people there seems hard to make work given how narrow the ledge is…

it is funny how psychologically adding a second bolt   to create an anchor can make a “pitch” which people will then try to send, whereas lowering off at a single bolt at the same place is something people seldom do (enigma, as you point out, is a good example). 

Though the more I think about it I’m not sure there are that many candidates for short anchors that don’t already have them. 

Skip the ledge and go straight for mo mo mo!

Matt Carroll wrote:
Though the more I think about it I’m not sure there are that many candidates for short anchors that don’t already have them. 

“Hadley’s slight overhang” is the next great Washington 12-

If you put an anchor at the 2nd to last bolts of Psycho, you'll have a great 12a (Psycho before crux) and 12b or something (Gerbil Lives before traverse left).

But don't do it, Psycho is crowded enough at it is and I still need 30-50 more attempts to send.

E A wrote:

You wanna add midway anchors to some climbs but chop bust the move anchors?! I won’t stand for the slander!!!

Im partly joking, enimga and hadleys are the only climbs I think it would be viable. 

 Bust the move is a great climb, and a very great warm up, bust the rhythm is an okay climb but a terrible neck tweaking, vomit inducing warmup.

It is a good warm up, ill give you that!

That aside I appreciate the list. What do you think are the top 5ish 5.12-13s that stay dry in the winter? 

Webelo/Drill/Bones are probably the driest routes in north bend, even with multiple inches of rain. If you need a belayer Daniel, Aaron and I go out there a good amount. The main issue is that do to the dubious holds of world wall 2, keeping your hands warm is the real crux, since your putting your hands deep into the wall, but world wall 2 gets way more sun than world wall 1. 

The next driest climb is probably Cali/Chronic/Illness. I was out there on a day it rained an inch.

I believe helms stays dry right of shih tzu jiu jitsu 3: Return of the princess. We have been out there in absolute downpours and its been fine. The issue is that it is so cold, sustained climbing, the rivers get quite scary and the snow comes earlier, so it is not a good winter crag. But normally we climb at helms April-November regardless of weather. 

I believe parts of the negative cave are permantly dry. Someone has begun rebolting the climbs but they all need permas, which means I need more people to give me money for permas. 

My climb Apex Predator has been dry through decemeber and is permatnly dry and does not seep after the 3rd bolt. However the third bolt turns into a waterfall and the belayer is pretty terrible when it is wet. I have debated putting in a belay platform and ladder but it hasnt really had much interest.

Matt Carroll wrote:

Wrt adding more mid anchors it seems like the highway congestion problem. You’ll create more induced demand and likely just lead to yet more congestion on the ledge. The throughput may go up slightly, but also having more people there seems hard to make work given how narrow the ledge is…

Yeah IDK if it would do much but the belay isnt crowded for enigma or hadleys roof. I think the real fix would be rebolting the right side or if people would just go climb in the woods more. But no one wants to get me bolts or permas for anything at world wall and after all the rebolting drama, I am reluctant to do anything unless someone else is an active participant. The real problem is the 5.11s. There are a lot of pretty great 5.11s that don't share climbing with 5.12s or harder.  

Sergey Shelukhin wrote:

If you put an anchor at the 2nd to last bolts of Psycho, you'll have a great 12a (Psycho before crux) and 12b or something (Gerbil Lives before traverse left).

But don't do it, Psycho is crowded enough at it is and I still need 30-50 more attempts to send.

I am with you. I gave up on world wall after I waited for two people for 3 hours to climb half of prop. 

Chop Bust The Move! Chop Bust The Move! Chop Bust The Move! CHOP! CHOP! CHOP! CHOP!

I don't doubt there's some useful info in here but dear lord this is some egregious spray

womp womp