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Non-Stock hardened steel picks

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Ray Lovpal · · Detroit, MI · Joined Dec 2020 · Points: 1,015

Who rocks em and what ones? What’re youre thoughts? Was looking for petzl ice kruks but alas no cheddar cause the scarcity of them and then was torn between the howey and berg sport steinle ice or mixed.


After a solid trip to ouray with the bergsport-steinle mixed picks and front points for nomics and darts. They displaced a bit more ice than I was expecting (I guess my mind just told me I could be able to tap it in like stas, make no noise or hardly break any ice. Wasn’t the case. The steel is in fact bomber. Still sharper than a hatori hanzo sword looking to slay vermin after some thin routes and a mixed route at camp bird rd.

I did get a diamond file to sharpen them though but haven’t yet and not sure how often I will need to compare to the petzl pur ice which often got burs and needed a good sharpening almost after every or every other trip. 

Not sure the set of front point and picks was worth the full $300 yet but will give it more time to really decide. 

Nico Leis · · Ouray, CO · Joined Nov 2019 · Points: 40

Check out Beartooth Alpine! My buddies Charlie and Paul started this business recently and they’ve got some pretty kick ass pure ice and mixed picks. Super hard steel, can’t figure out how to break it, and displaces very little ice/makes no noise. Like butter. Super hard and durable from what I’ve found so far too. They haven’t released their picks on the website yet but you should contact them!

https://beartoothalpine.com/

Aaron Liebling · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 952
NateC · · Utah · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 1

I'd love to try the Beartooth Alpine picks but they are currently like Krukonogi. Have a reputation for being awesome, and don't exist for purchase. 

I have Kruk picks, Steinle picks, Kuznia picks, and stock picks for Nomic and Xdreams. 

The Steinle are made well but thicker than Kruk. They displace more ice than Kruk and have a more open angle than Petzl Pur'Ice. The open angle is nice for swinging, but less secure once placed. I keep them because I think they have a place for bullet hard alpine ice in places like Alaska. I was very disappointed with the Steinle front points for the Darts. They are too short in my opinion. 

The Kuznia picks are the worst I've owned. The steel is hard and doesn't dull, but the picks seem to bounce and take a ton of work to get good sticks. I've climbed on them twice but now they are sitting in the parts bag with no use. The angle is quite steep as well, more like a mixed or drytool pick. It takes a lot of exaggerated wrist flick to get the right contact. 

Krukonogi are my go-to picks for when the ice challenges my ability. I use the 00's (Stas version). They displace very little ice and require very little energy on the swing to get adequate penetration. The head angle on nomics is slightly steeper than pur'ice which makes them more stable on shallow or hooked placements (or when going to the 2nd position). They are expensive as hell when you can find them but they last and last unless you hit a rock. I baby the hell out of them and only put them on when I'm sure that the ice is fat enough not to hit rock. 

I have Howey tool drytooling picks for my Xdreams and have been really really stoked on them. In fact I think they are better than my partner's Krukonogi drytooling picks. It definitely makes me consider getting the Howey tool ice and mixed picks when I need to buy more. 

Ray Lovpal · · Detroit, MI · Joined Dec 2020 · Points: 1,015
Nico Leis wrote:

Check out Beartooth Alpine! My buddies Charlie and Paul started this business recently and they’ve got some pretty kick ass pure ice and mixed picks. Super hard steel, can’t figure out how to break it, and displaces very little ice/makes no noise. Like butter. Super hard and durable from what I’ve found so far too. They haven’t released their picks on the website yet but you should contact them!

https://beartoothalpine.com/

Thanks for the heads up will have to message them And check these out soon if they come to market! I’ll tell them Nico leis referred me if that’s ok?

Ray Lovpal · · Detroit, MI · Joined Dec 2020 · Points: 1,015
NateC wrote:

I'd love to try the Beartooth Alpine picks but they are currently like Krukonogi. Have a reputation for being awesome, and don't exist for purchase. 

I have Kruk picks, Steinle picks, Kuznia picks, and stock picks for Nomic and Xdreams. 

The Steinle are made well but thicker than Kruk. They displace more ice than Kruk and have a more open angle than Petzl Pur'Ice. The open angle is nice for swinging, but less secure once placed. I keep them because I think they have a place for bullet hard alpine ice in places like Alaska. I was very disappointed with the Steinle front points for the Darts. They are too short in my opinion. 

The Kuznia picks are the worst I've owned. The steel is hard and doesn't dull, but the picks seem to bounce and take a ton of work to get good sticks. I've climbed on them twice but now they are sitting in the parts bag with no use. The angle is quite steep as well, more like a mixed or drytool pick. It takes a lot of exaggerated wrist flick to get the right contact. 

Krukonogi are my go-to picks for when the ice challenges my ability. I use the 00's (Stas version). They displace very little ice and require very little energy on the swing to get adequate penetration. The head angle on nomics is slightly steeper than pur'ice which makes them more stable on shallow or hooked placements (or when going to the 2nd position). They are expensive as hell when you can find them but they last and last unless you hit a rock. I baby the hell out of them and only put them on when I'm sure that the ice is fat enough not to hit rock. 

I have Howey tool drytooling picks for my Xdreams and have been really really stoked on them. In fact I think they are better than my partner's Krukonogi drytooling picks. It definitely makes me consider getting the Howey tool ice and mixed picks when I need to buy more. 

Nate thanks for the detailed feedback! Sounds like I didn’t get a bad pick but potentially maybe not the best option..?

Seems that what I was expecting was the kruks experience from the BS but didn’t know how different they were from each other. But also from your account I think I still may want to dabble with the kruks if I can ever find them too.

I agree that the front points could’ve been a bit longer but I think it managed ok for me by how I set them on the front section of the dart. I do see what you mean though. The stock front point that comes with the dart does seems to have several more cm than the BS. I will definitely be keeping these mixed picked on and try to get some good use out of them nice to hear that they do well in the hard Alaskan ice as I do have the sights set there sometime in the near to medium term Future!

Pat Marrinan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2019 · Points: 25

Beartooth picks should be available to order soon, they are waiting until they can guarantee a ship date to go live, but they are expecting early/mid march ship dates. Info from them last week. 

Ben Kuprevich · · Durango, CO · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 0
Pat Marrinan wrote:

Beartooth picks should be available to order soon, they are waiting until they can guarantee a ship date to go live, but they are expecting early/mid march ship dates. Info from them last week. 

I can second what Pat wrote about availability, also the March ETA for pick availability is for X-dream ice and mix picks.  Nomic picks will be coming along sometime after the X-dream picks... with hopes that they arrive before the end of this season but no promises.

Ben Kuprevich · · Durango, CO · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 0
Ben Kuprevich wrote:

I can second what Pat wrote about availability, also the March ETA for pick availability is for X-dream ice and mix picks.  Nomic picks will be coming along sometime after the X-dream picks... with hopes that they arrive before the end of this season but no promises.

Almost forgot, if you are interested get on their email list from the homepage.

https://beartoothalpine.com/

Charles Faust · · Georgia · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 85

Hey y'all! Buddy Nico forwarded me this thread saying folks were talking picks. This is Charlie, one of the owners and designers of Beartooth Alpine Equipment. Love to hear our picks are already getting some stoke and reputation, even though we only just demoed some prototypes at the Ouray Ice Fest! Paul Shaughnessy (other owner) and I are working our asses off to expand our manufacturing capacity to meet the demand and stoke we are getting from this wonderful community. After the past week, we have some updates on our timelines to give folks. Along with the update, everyone is free to ask any questions about what Beartooth is doing now, planning to do, info about gear, etc either on this thread or shoot me a email directly at info@beartoothalpine.com.

Anything you've heard about our picks came from demoing prototypes at the OIF, so expect the final product to meet and hopefully exceed the expectations that are circulating. The delay in availability for the first pick models is coming from two places. First, we heard about a new patented metal alloy that had just recently hit the market that we decided we HAD to try before committing to production. From already fully testing our pure ice design, we know that there is nothing for us to change there. But any gear you get from us has to be the BEST. Period. That is the brand we are building. So even though our current model and metal choice is the best we've ever used, we gotta make sure we can't make it even better. For a reference of us vs other companies: anyone who makes an ice pick for the Petzl Nomic also sells it as a pick that works best for the Ergo, Quark, Sumtec, etc.. However, we are testing and modeling every individual pick to it's specific tool. If you want the best performance, that's what you've got to do.

The bigger source of delay is getting the machinery that will not just allow us to keep up with demand, but also sell you the picks at a reasonable cost. Unfortunately, the most important machine we need is not available in the United States for purchase. We did find and buy the machine just after the Ouray Ice Fest, and we were guaranteed for it to arrive in the next week (one month fulfillment). This is why the early-mid March launch ETA was expected. Classically, between a delay from the supplier and the United States government making importing machinery a huge pain in the ass, we got told this week that we will have to wait an extra couple of weeks.

A TON of people have asked to pre-order picks, and these unexpected issues are why we refused to take anyone's money in the past few weeks. As someone who is still waiting on a G7 pack to be fulfilled from the startup campaign (anyone else here suffering with me haha?), we will never take folks money without being able to guarantee an expectation from us.

Anyways, with this new delay, we are simply asking anyone who is interested to sign up for our email list on our home page at beartoothalpine.com. Anyone who is subscribed will get first dibs on pre-ordering picks, and this email list is also where we send subscriber discount codes and detailed updates and info about our gear.

Whatever does happen this season for gear releases, what we do know for a fact are our launch goals for Fall of this year: Beartooth will have a lineup of the best picks on the market for multiple of the most popular tools, as well as another piton design. When we launch our lineups, as to @NateC's point, you WILL be able to find and buy them lol. We will only launch gear when its 1) the best and 2) we can fully support the inventory demand. We just ask folks to be patient and keep the sike going on the company we are building. Paul and I launched this idea in late December, and wow what a whirlwind of 1.5 months it has been!

Ok, that's a lot of info. Hope anyone's basic questions of who we are, what we are doing, and what folks can expect through this year are answered. As said earlier, always feel free to reach out. Paul and I love chatting gear, talking climbing, and shit talking haha. Keep climbing and crushing out there folks!

NateC · · Utah · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 1

@Charlie, this is awesome. I’m stoked to try them when they’re ready. Your commitment to excellence is rad.

I do miss your YouTube adventures though. I’m guessing that business is in the way. 

Charles Faust · · Georgia · Joined Aug 2017 · Points: 85
NateC wrote:

@Charlie, this is awesome. I’m stoked to try them when they’re ready. Your commitment to excellence is rad.

I do miss your YouTube adventures though. I’m guessing that business is in the way. 

@NateC Thanks for the stoke homie! We're going to make the community proud. I promise that. 

Funny enough, the Youtube adventures are coming back SOON! Might have a video out this week, certainly by next week. Business has been in the way, but part of building a company and brand is media, so I'm back in the editing chair now :) the channel is about to be rebranded to Beartooth, with the same climbing content everyone was used to. The content variety will increase too with vids such as tech tips, how to maintain Beartooth gear, lab testing videos, gear recs for alpine climbing we use that aint ours but love and trust, etc etc. Almost as siked to be back in the video editing chair as I am the biz... almost ;)

Stay in touch, and stay tuned! Gonna be a busy year, hell, I'm going on an expedition to Pakistan at the end of May too. I'll get some sleep in 2025 lol

Robby Parsons · · Bozeman, MT · Joined May 2021 · Points: 169
Charles Faust wrote:

Anyways, with this new delay, we are simply asking anyone who is interested to sign up for our email list on our home page at beartoothalpine.com. Anyone who is subscribed will get first dibs on pre-ordering picks, and this email list is also where we send subscriber discount codes and detailed updates and info about our gear.

Just stumbled across this thread. Stoked to see some new picks come to market! Signed up for your email list!

Jim Clarke · · Fruitland, UT · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 2,302

Been climbing ice since '96. Beartooth is going to change the game. It's gonna be worth the wait. 

J B · · Cambridge, MA · Joined Nov 2018 · Points: 20

Another recommendation for Howey Tool picks. His x dream picks transformed my tools. Little bumps into rock that would mushroom camp picks barely scratch the Howey picks

Ray Lovpal · · Detroit, MI · Joined Dec 2020 · Points: 1,015

null


so update, i got bergsport-steinle mixed picks and after 1 trip to ouray/silverton and on a second now in Quebec im not sure the hard metal is as good. Been mostly on ice but climbed the hardest mixed climb in the world at camp bird road and they were great.

I haven’t sharpened them yet and did not also full swing into any rock since putting them on. But after some bullet hard ice on la Whittom today in saguenay I think these already need sharpening unfortunately. I know they still metal and can/will get misshapen. I guess

I was just expecting a bit more sharpness still and not necessarily have to sharpen them this soon. Will likely look into the beartooths and/or howey picks now. 

John Sigmon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2019 · Points: 83
Ray Lovpal wrote:

null


so update, i got bergsport-steinle mixed picks and after 1 trip to ouray/silverton and on a second now in Quebec im not sure the hard metal is as good. Been mostly on ice but climbed the hardest mixed climb in the world at camp bird road and they were great.

I haven’t sharpened them yet and did not also full swing into any rock since putting them on. But after some bullet hard ice on la Whittom today in saguenay I think these already need sharpening unfortunately. I know they still metal and can/will get misshapen. I guess

I was just expecting a bit more sharpness still and not necessarily have to sharpen them this soon. Will likely look into the beartooths and/or howey picks now. 

ive literally smashed multiple rocks with mine and they didn't look anywhere near that bad so i guess ymmv ? you got them to look like that by climbing ice and only one mixed pitch?

Ray Lovpal · · Detroit, MI · Joined Dec 2020 · Points: 1,015
John Sigmon wrote:

ive literally smashed multiple rocks with mine and they didn't look anywhere near that bad so i guess ymmv ? you got them to look like that by climbing ice and only one mixed pitch?

Well I know I didn’t smash them cause after putting on 160$ worth of new picks I’ve been very careful to scratch whenever I think ice is thin or I see snow on what may look like ice. But yea essentially. The only routes I’ve climbed with these on so far have been 

Whorehouse hoses - fat ice

Dexter slabs - fat ice 

Horsetail falls - some scratchy sections 

Charming tube - some scratchy sections

Skylight - mixed thin but did not back any rock

Hardest mixed climb in the world - only scratched or set and placed no swinging into rock

Topaze - fat ice

Mirage d hiver fat bullet hard ice

Sweet madame blues fat but bullet hard ice 

La Whittom hardest ice I’ve ever climbed in 4 seasons. Thin some areas but scratched everywhere I knew there was or saw rock

So i dont know why mine looks so bad 

John Sigmon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2019 · Points: 83

); sorry man

Pat Marrinan · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2019 · Points: 25

My friend has a pair of brand new Krukonogi PX2 he is interested in selling but isn't in this thread and I said I would post. I'll connect you if you are interested. 

Ray Lovpal · · Detroit, MI · Joined Dec 2020 · Points: 1,015
Pat Marrinan wrote:

My friend has a pair of brand new Krukonogi PX2 he is interested in selling but isn't in this thread and I said I would post. I'll connect you if you are interested. 

Hey Pat! Sorry o never got back to you. does your friend still have the petzl kruk picks and if so how much would they be?

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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