Gatekeeping in the community

Stiles wrote:

This is quite an absurd history of climbing in the US.  If any military training assisted climbing, it happened in Europe.   Our climbing came from the Alps, and it started waaaay before WWII.  

Correct, the training was done in Europe and then the techniques and practice of it were brought to the US by the 10th mountain division.  Its part of the history of the area I learned to climb in.  I'm sure your right that the climbing started in the Alps before WWII, and was later co-opted by the US military as being one of its own in-house developed things, as that would fit with other historical precedents.

At the root of your whine, tho: You want bolts next to cracks, why?  Because you cant afford to buy protection??

What are you crying about about here?  If you want me to take your complaint seriously and reply to it, please provide a photo of a doll, or just a stick figure, and circle the place on the doll (or stick figure) where my words hurt you, and explain the nature of the pain and how it impacts your life.  Otherwise please just scoot along.

I disagree wholeheartedly on your interpretation of climbing history, or that the military is holding you back.  

And it saddens me you wish to bring the rock down to your level.  I would circle the Spirit and Soul of climbing and adventure, personal responsibility, integrity, ambition, and adventure. If such a voodoo doll expressed these traits.  

If l gave you gear, would you take the initiative to learn how to use it?  Or would you choose a hand drill from me, and learn how to use that?

M M wrote:

Basically matt samet stole the thread for his headline climbing article?

It’s fine, I’m getting my royalty checks.

To you weirdos who are taking this thread waaaaay to seriously with your military tie ins:

Serious posters get one post, get called out for not reading far enough down page 1 to see me saying this was in jest, and then you quit. If you take it further than one post, you are just trying to upset your own snowflake sensibilities.

JNE wrote:

Great question!  The practice of contemporary mountaineering with a ground up lead ethic, and it's off shoot ground up 'trad' climbing, has its roots tied up with the militaries of WWII.  In the US it was (I believe) the 10th mountain division.  In any case these military units developed techniques to scale mountains for military purposes, and that is what preceded contemporary alpinism and 'trad' climbing in the US.  As a result, the inheritors of that military tradition often think they have some kind of ownership over the contemporary practice of rock climbing, particularly single pitch trad climbing (in particular offwidths) and most certainly all of alpinism, and often act as gatekeepers and encourage others to follow in their example.  

Shit, I like trad climbing, guess I’m going to join the military now.

I just want to remind you equity folk, gatekeeping is entirely appropriate and necessary, in life. 

Back to your hand-wringing...

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

I just want to remind you equity folk, gatekeeping is entirely appropriate and necessary, in life. 

Back to your hand-wringing...

So the US military will start gatekeeping the US government?  Because with today's political funding structure where politicians get a large amount of their campaign donations from companies which make military equipment, your statement essentially means that the US military will start, or is actively, gatekeeping itself.  Interesting proposition.

I’m locking this until you people can play nice and stop bringing politics and military history into it.

#gatekept

John Clark wrote:

I’m locking this until you people can play nice and stop bringing politics and military history into it.

Boooo

So anyways, MP forums are really boring these days. Anyone know of a different climbing forum that is more entertaining? Trevor?

John Clark wrote:

So anyways, MP forums are really boring these days. Anyone know of a different climbing forum that is more entertaining? Trevor?

I'm not Trevor but the "Lighter weight on Denali" thread is kind of interesting/funny

Finn Lanvers wrote:

I'm not Trevor but the "Lighter weight on Denali" thread is kind of interesting/funny

Ew, waxing eloquent about cold hiking. No thanks.

John Clark wrote:

So anyways, MP forums are really boring these days. Anyone know of a different climbing forum that is more entertaining? Trevor?

One can always head over to the accidents forum and post that people shouldn't be so obsessed with accident analysis when the victims and their relatives might be retraumatized. 

John Clark wrote:

So anyways, MP forums are really boring these days. Anyone know of a different climbing forum that is more entertaining? Trevor?

I’ve been saying this for months. I’ve been forced to actually climb. Fuckin’ sucks. 

John Clark wrote:

So anyways, MP forums are really boring these days. Anyone know of a different climbing forum that is more entertaining? Trevor?

Come on over to the Tradicast!

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/120505530/introducing-the-tradicast

Tradiban wrote:

Come on over to the Tradicast!

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/120505530/introducing-the-tradicast

How have I never seen this? Be there in a min

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

One can always head over to the accidents forum and post that people shouldn't be so obsessed with accident analysis when the victims and their relatives might be retraumatized. 

Do you think that would help to save lives? I'm all for it if yes, because if it's between potentially retruamatizing someone and someone learning something that helps keep them alive, I'm for saving lives.

A landing page disclaimer on that forum section might be in order and a good way to kill two birds with one stone (no pun intended.) This could potentially save lives and avoid retruamatizing at the same time. Enter at your own accord.

And then open a heavy moderated condolences forum.

Nathan Doyle wrote:

Do you think that would help to save lives? I'm all for it if yes, because if it's between potentially retruamatizing someone and someone learning something that helps keep them alive, I'm for saving lives.

A landing page disclaimer on that forum section might be in order and a good way to kill two birds with one stone (no pun intended.) This could potentially save lives and avoid retruamatizing at the same time. Enter at your own accord.

And then open a heavy moderated condolences forum.

Tell me you don't understand the thread you're posting in without telling me you don't understand the thread you're posting in. 

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

Tell me you don't understand the thread you're posting in without telling me you don't understand the thread you're posting in. 

It isn’t rage baiting without a little rage

John Clark wrote:

How can you possibly justify this? If FAs really do have dominion over “their” routes, then they also have the responsibility to make them accessible to anyone who wants to climb them regardless of financial means, especially routes on public land.

This has to be a joke. Firstly, virtually all climbs are on public lands. What does that non sequitar have to do with this inane comment? And of course the FA needs to be doing nothing that you wrote of Mr Clark. 

Just be grateful that the FA put in the intense effort that goes into establishing any good route. 

But by all means, feel free to equip all the routes you are putting up with high-quality all-weather draws.

You lost me at bolting cracks. That's a gate we'd all like to keep closed.