Gatekeeping in the community

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

If you find yourself in Yosemite in that bright future of first ascenting, hit me up; I'm always game to show people the ropes and the drill bits and the hammers and the boredom and the pain and the isolation and the lack of respect and the ridicule and all the rest of what comes with putting up routes. 

I'll let you know! Thanks!

Mark Pilate wrote:

Yes, it’s very encouraging to see young climbers like Finn and Adalayde joining in the fray.   Keep up the good work.  

Hopefully they’re not just very sophisticated bots! Lol.

Edit:   Oh Jake…..smh 

Haha! Thanks! 

Nathan Doyle wrote:

Boredom? I think you got carried away. 

I very much ensure that you I did not. 

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

I very much ensure that you I did not. 

It was a good run. No more flies i suppose

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

I very much ensure that you I did not. 

You really get bored putting up new routes in Yosemite and other such places? Odd.

Nathan Doyle wrote:

You really get bored putting up new routes in Yosemite and other such places? Odd.

Are you hoping that by asking/stating the same thing over and over that I'll change my answer?

Ever belay a partner for multiple 6+ hour sessions over a couple days as they dig and drill and dig and inch their way up a new pitch? 

Ever spend an entire weekend just humping loads and freight hauling and never actually climbing? 

I spent about a decade pretty much only working on putting up walls every weekend I could inbetween holding down a 9-5 during the week to the point where Yosemite started to feel more like a job than my actual job.  It's part of the reason I've taken a couple years off to just climb established walls and actually get some freeclimbing in. 

Being bored doesn't mean that the entire experience isn't worthwhile. It's part of the experience. For me, bigwall climbing isn't this awesome amazing thing; it's something that I'm drawn to do and obsessed with despite the fact that it's seldom actually fun. If anything, the lack of fun goes hand in hand with the feeling on meaning that comes with the completion of a project. If it was fun, it'd be easy, but I don't enjoy it because it's easy, I enjoy it because it's boring, irritating, pointless, and hard. 

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

Are you hoping that by asking/stating the same thing over and over that I'll change my answer?

Ever belay a partner for multiple 6+ hour sessions over a couple days as they dig and drill and dig and inch their way up a new pitch? 

Ever spend an entire weekend just humping loads and freight hauling and never actually climbing? 

I spent about a decade pretty much only working on putting up walls every weekend I could inbetween holding down a 9-5 during the week to the point where Yosemite started to feel more like a job than my actual job.  It's part of the reason I've taken a couple years off to just climb established walls and actually get some freeclimbing in. 

Being bored doesn't mean that the entire experience isn't worthwhile. It's part of the experience. For me, bigwall climbing isn't this awesome amazing thing; it's something that I'm drawn to do and obsessed with despite the fact that it's seldom actually fun. If anything, the lack of fun goes hand in hand with the feeling on meaning that comes with the completion of a project. If it was fun, it'd be easy, but I don't enjoy it because it's easy, I enjoy it because it's boring, irritating, pointless, and hard. 

I was hoping it would make sense. It sounds like so much fun, so bordom never crossed my mind. Hmm, that's too bad, sorry it wasn't more fun for you.

Nathan Doyle wrote:

I was hoping it would make sense. It sounds like so much fun, so bordom never crossed my mind. Hmm, that's too bad, sorry it wasn't more fun for you.

I think you're missing the point. If it was fun, it'd mean less. It's like offwidth climbing, type two "fun"

I know some flight simmers who get really, really elitist and assholistic to almost anyone, especially newcomers if they use anything besides a PMDG aircraft (or similar), ORBX scenery and a high-end PC. Like bro, I just wanna screw around flying loops in a freeware 737 speedtest.vet/  .

remo louis wrote:

I know some flight simmers who get really, really elitist and assholistic to almost anyone, especially newcomers if they use anything besides a PMDG aircraft (or similar), ORBX scenery and a high-end PC. Like bro, I just wanna screw around flying loops in a freeware 737.

Try not to rip the wings off, screaming up a box canyon. Pilot friend did just that, when he got to play in a military sim!

Interesting article https://www.climbing.com/people/does-climbing-need-gatekeeping-to-save-itself/

The No Gatekeeping Community has been contained. Carry on.

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

The No Gatekeeping Community has been contained. Carry on.

I think its more that the gatekeepers have been identified as the community members with military overlap, or those who knowingly or unknowingly serve the interests of community members with military overlap.  With the US military and US military intervention in foreign countries being so overwhelmingly popular as it is right now, the gatekeepers have been contained.  The 10th mountain division should pat itself on the back.

JNE wrote:

I think its more that the gatekeepers have been identified as the community members with military overlap, or those who knowingly or unknowingly serve the interests of community members with military overlap.  With the US military and US military intervention in foreign countries being so overwhelmingly popular as it is right now, the gatekeepers have been contained.  The 10th mountain division should pat itself on the back.

…okay…? Way to resurrect a zombie troll thread

JNE wrote:

I think it’s more that the gatekeepers have been identified as the community members with military overlap, or those who knowingly or unknowingly serve the interests of community members with military overlap.  With the US military and US military intervention in foreign countries being so overwhelmingly popular as it is right now, the gatekeepers have been contained.  The 10th mountain division should pat itself on the back.

What are you going on about?

Finn Lanvers wrote:

What are you going on about?

Great question!  The practice of contemporary mountaineering with a ground up lead ethic, and it's off shoot ground up 'trad' climbing, has its roots tied up with the militaries of WWII.  In the US it was (I believe) the 10th mountain division.  In any case these military units developed techniques to scale mountains for military purposes, and that is what preceded contemporary alpinism and 'trad' climbing in the US.  As a result, the inheritors of that military tradition often think they have some kind of ownership over the contemporary practice of rock climbing, particularly single pitch trad climbing (in particular offwidths) and most certainly all of alpinism, and often act as gatekeepers and encourage others to follow in their example.  

Its kind of funny how the news dictates talking points from world wars all the way down to climbing! Even Mtn proj asked me if I wanted to resurrect this "zombie" thread

imagine a world where everyone had to be polite as to not hurt anyone's feelings, wouldn't that be perfect?

now beat it punters

M M wrote:

Its kind of funny how the news dictates talking points from world wars all the way down to climbing! Even Mtn proj asked me if I wanted to resurrect this "zombie" thread

imagine a world where everyone had to be polite as to not hurt anyone's feelings, wouldn't that be perfect?

now beat it punters

Seriously, as the troll OP, even I have lost the thread of what you people are on about now. Congrats…? 

Basically matt samet stole the thread for his headline climbing article?

JNE wrote:

Great question!  The practice of contemporary mountaineering with a ground up lead ethic, and it's off shoot ground up 'trad' climbing, has its roots tied up with the militaries of WWII.  In the US it was (I believe) the 10th mountain division.  In any case these military units developed techniques to scale mountains for military purposes, and that is what preceded contemporary alpinism and 'trad' climbing in the US.  As a result, the inheritors of that military tradition often think they have some kind of ownership over the contemporary practice of rock climbing, particularly single pitch trad climbing (in particular offwidths) and most certainly all of alpinism, and often act as gatekeepers and encourage others to follow in their example.  

This is quite an absurd history of climbing in the US.  If any military training assisted climbing, it happened in Europe.   Our climbing came from the Alps, and it started waaaay before WWII.  

At the root of your whine, tho: You want bolts next to cracks, why?  Because you cant afford to buy protection??