MP has too many choosing beggars

Choosing Beggar: people who are being way too picky when getting stuff for free. People tend to forget that the routes we climb, trails we walk, the access we have and the safe experience of the crag didn't magically appear. Yet many people won't stop complaining about crowds, bolt placements and other stuff. They are mad that their experience, that was relatively low cost or free to them, isn't the absolute best experience in the world. Often users have some sense of entitlement to something they made no contribution towards. Hence if you have never worked on a trail, cleaned up a landing, educated someone about general climbing ethics, drilled a bolt, thrown money at a climbing coalition, or called a port-a-potty company you might be a choosy beggar. 

Do not confuse this with chossy beggars; we need more of those kind of people.

Why are you polluting this forum with your entitled sense of what you should have to put up with?

Based

8/10. For voicing my same feelings about the constant bitching from a lot of climbers. 

Complaining about complainers. We have entered the MP wormhole *twilight zone music*

Improvements you describe are often destroying the natural beauty of an area.  Definitely don't agree with giving money to coalitions that groom areas. Trail building is often taken to the extreme reflecting the hubris of the builders who want to congratulate themselves for making improvements. Curbing erosion is a lot simpler than building a trail to take grandma on & often should be done slowly as one becomes in touch with a specific area

9/10 climbers love to say they are the "most educated user group" or "best stewards" but have little idea what goes into making it possible. Thanks for this. 

Bill Czajkowski wrote:

Why are you polluting this forum with your entitled sense of what you should have to put up with?

Start a thread about that, that is a totally separate topic.  I don't see how better trails/more rock climbs is a bad thing which is my end goal? If people still complain but contribute I would consider that a win.

Edit: Bill it wouldn't be entitlement if people put in trail work or contributed. That is the point.

James M wrote:

Complaining about complainers. We have entered the MP wormhole *twilight zone music*

My complaint is that people are complaining and doing nothing. The doing nothing is more important than the complaining. My main point is if you want the world to be a better place maybe make an effort to do that. 

Bass Pro wrote:

Improvements you describe are often destroying the natural beauty of an area.  Definitely don't agree with giving money to coalitions that groom areas. Trail building is often taken to the extreme reflecting the hubris of the builders who want to congratulate themselves for making improvements. Curbing erosion is a lot simpler than building a trail to take grandma on & often should be done slowly as one becomes in touch with a specific area

I am curious where trail building has been taken to the extreme? Part of the benefit of over manicured areas are that people understand that this 30 feet of space they occupy is where they should be rather than bushwacking aimlessly. 

Ben V wrote:

9/10 climbers love to say they are the "most educated user group" or "best stewards" but have little idea what goes into making it possible. Thanks for this.

Yeah, I feel like REI/Patagonia/North Face has branded its buyers as the good guys. So we tell our selves we are the good guys but actually being a good guy requires doing good things.

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

Start a thread about that, that is a totally separate topic.  I don't see how better trails/more rock climbs is a bad thing which is my end goal? If people still complain but contribute I would consider that a win.

My complaint is that people are complaining and doing nothing. The doing nothing is more important than the complaining. My main point is if you want the world to be a better place maybe make an effort to do that. 

I am curious where trail building has been taken to the extreme? Part of the benefit of over manicured areas are that people understand that this 30 feet of space they occupy is where they should be rather than bushwacking aimlessly. 

Yeah, I feel like REI/Patagonia/North Face has branded its buyers as the good guys. So we tell our selves we are the good guys but actually being a good guy requires doing good things.

You made this thread about entitlement and then ran off at the finger tips about trail building. I think you need to get back on topic.

I came to this realization about myself recently.  I don't complain about the hard work others do, but I realized that after seven years of climbing I hadn't contributed anything myself.  I Instagram messaged a local route developer about an area I'd been to recently that has some old and sketchy bolts to ask how I could help do something about it.  (I don't know how to rebolt and have no equipment.)  He offered to go out with me and teach me how to rebolt if I could raise money for the new hardware.  I talked to a couple friends and put up a sign at a local gym to collect donations.  We raised $500 and we're fixing the bolts next week.  If anyone out there is thinking about getting involved, remember that our community is pretty small, and that simply asking the right people is all it'll take.

We raised $500 and we're fixing the bolts next week. 

Rad dude, this is the stuff I wanna see more of on MP. Good vibes and good idea, might try to do something similar locally. 

Whisk3rzz 1 wrote:

Based

What does this word mean?

Bill I responded to you in an edit to my other post.

Seriously Moderate Climber wrote:

I came to this realization about myself recently.  I don't complain about the hard work others do, but I realized that after seven years of climbing I hadn't contributed anything myself.  I Instagram messaged a local route developer about an area I'd been to recently that has some old and sketchy bolts to ask how I could help do something about it.  (I don't know how to rebolt and have no equipment.)  He offered to go out with me and teach me how to rebolt if I could raise money for the new hardware.  I talked to a couple friends and put up a sign at a local gym to collect donations.  We raised $500 and we're fixing the bolts next week.  If anyone out there is thinking about getting involved, remember that our community is pretty small, and that simply asking the right people is all it'll take.

This is called initiative, perfect example of how to help.

Or those who try to 'lowball' items for sale.  Cheapskates.

Trevor Taylor wrote:

What does this word mean?

Bill I responded to you in an edit to my other post.

Internet slang for when you agree with someone.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=based