What happened to the "I was asking for advice about making 'glue-in bolts' but I really didn't want to listen to anyone who actually knew anything" thread?

Where'd it go?

How stupid did it get?

Why'd it go away?

ed "it was a perfect phone call..." e

It got ugly, with MaJa threatening a bolt war in the Red and several posters outing his name, city and (briefly) his phone number.

Kind of wonder if he got banned.

Regardless, the entire thread reflected badly on MP and probably best that it's gone, although I'll miss the drama.

Edited to add- apparently not.

Thread might have been banished to the Community Forum I suppose.

Name Withheld wrote:

He also threatened physical violence several times, to several people.

Looks like yanked, as not in Community.

Also he outed his own name and occupation, location is in his profile. Yes, his phone number got posted, but was a screenshot of an unpleasant message he sent to someone else and was up for under 30 minutes.

It’s not really doxxing if you do yourself. 

Holy sheet! I get out for one weekend and I miss all the action! Anyone have screenshots of the excitement? I need some rainy day entertainment.

MaJa complaining about bolting in the RRG...Whats new?

It’ll all be ok everybody. Just take a deep breath and relax. 

I'll give you one response, and then I'll just let you trolls do your thing.

First off, the thread had nothing to do with asking anyone for help or advice. I didnt ask anyone a single question, but that didnt stop the unsolicited "help". I dont listen to random advice on the internet, even from Jim, as I've never even met the guy (not that anyone actually provided any knowledge anyways). I work with people in person, people with known credentials and who can offer feedback and advice directly, and who's intentions are to help me succeed. The thread was to document the process of making a bolt, transparently, and not "would you please help me through the internet." Anyone who missed that has a basic issue with reading comprehension.

If you trolls would have had a bit of patience, you would have eventually had some actual content to bash. Instead, you all assume I'm out here traveling through time, installing bolts made in 2021, on routes bolted in 2019. I don't ever want to see threads removed or locked, but when trolls are going after someone personally, it's really the only option.

I assumed the best of MP. Now I know that this is not the place to post and share my experiences, in an attempt to help other people with less experience. It's a place with a small amount of entertainment value, some good deals on gear, and very little else, unless you like ad hominem attacks, and poorly thought out, off target bullying from the least equipped trolls. Have fun guys. Unsubbed. I'll be back in three months when you all figured out you're wasting your breath.

...And I'm sure Ian has screenshots, if you're looking for a good read.

While it was a funny thread and was out-of-control...

I do hope the OP eventually posts a recap of his experience, if he forges ahead with his plan. I'm not qualified to weigh in on whether or not it's a good idea, but it should be an interesting process.

Books are boring! Bending metal easy!

Bending is the last part. First you have to straighten it. 

The first wire straightener/cutoff machine I worked on and ran for a couple of years was made in 1885. Keeping it running was a blast. My boss would not let us buy anything except metal stock to keep it going. I screwed up & forgot to lube the flywheel, it broke off and rolled halfway through a wall. It took me three 12 hour days to weld the hub back to the spokes & grind it to refit it to the machine. My boss stood over me & watched almost every minute. He told me he had intended to fire me, but first wanted to torture me. When I stuck with it and got it back together he figured I learned my lesson. He still made me run a Centerless Grinder for a week. Until you have run a large Centerless Grinder you don't know HELL & FEAR.

The oldest machine I've worked on was proudly emblazoned across the front  " A GREAT WAR PRODUCT" (e1st world war), a 48" grinder for thicknessing piston rings (we made short runs for ancient Bentleys and such like). Like all stuff of that age you had to know and love it to cope with it's peculiarities. My normal machine was a LeBlonde lathe sent over from Canada under Mutual Aid, it got dropped when unloaded from the ship so had a cracked bed so there was a dial guage across the crack which you kept a beady eye on when working. No wonder British manufacturing went to the wall!
The machines that twist my bolts are old but not that old!

• Name Withheld wrote: VTLs can be exciting too.  Nothing like a several hundred pound, 36” diameter part that goes flying in random direction when a clamp comes loose.  I hated being around those things.

We had a couple Bullard VTL’s in the place in which I worked many years. Scariest machines in the shop! The controls were right next to the rotating chuck with no guards, meaning a heavy part moving very fast at waist to neck level.  I watched a particular machinist throw more than one part across the floor. Amazing that the worst accidents were a lost finger and a sliced hamstring from a stainless stringer, (two different dudes). 

As for this thread, I would say just buy the damn bolts. I could’ve machined cams, but it’s the engineering and testing that makes them safe. 

Maja you should chime in with your experience as a bolt maker unless you are a troll.

Ma Ja wrote: I'll give you one response, and then I'll just let you trolls do your thing.

First off, the thread had nothing to do with asking anyone for help or advice. I didnt ask anyone a single question, but that didnt stop the unsolicited "help". I dont listen to random advice on the internet, even from Jim, as I've never even met the guy (not that anyone actually provided any knowledge anyways). I work with people in person, people with known credentials and who can offer feedback and advice directly, and who's intentions are to help me succeed. The thread was to document the process of making a bolt, transparently, and not "would you please help me through the internet." Anyone who missed that has a basic issue with reading comprehension.

If you trolls would have had a bit of patience, you would have eventually had some actual content to bash. Instead, you all assume I'm out here traveling through time, installing bolts made in 2021, on routes bolted in 2019. I don't ever want to see threads removed or locked, but when trolls are going after someone personally, it's really the only option.

I assumed the best of MP. Now I know that this is not the place to post and share my experiences, in an attempt to help other people with less experience. It's a place with a small amount of entertainment value, some good deals on gear, and very little else, unless you like ad hominem attacks, and poorly thought out, off target bullying from the least equipped trolls. Have fun guys. Unsubbed. I'll be back in three months when you all figured out you're wasting your breath.

...And I'm sure Ian has screenshots, if you're looking for a good read.

MP is full of assholes. A lot of them posted on that thread. Although to my credit I only posted once. Assholes-lots of them, but along with some real good folks. My thoughts still apply. To wit: Ma Jas bolts would be fine if he properly prepped the hole and use good glue. Finished up with Maja needs to work on his bedside manner - and just do it. Don't post it here for the vultures to pick on and over. 

Looks like Maja must have caught my advice before it was deleted. Someone still needs to get MaJa a shirt that ays: "Does Not Play Well with others". In fact, get some for most of us that posted to that thread. In extra small except for majas. :-) .

Best to all, have fun out there Ma Ja and do the right thing. That's all ....and it should be enough, if knot too much.

Bill I am not taking what you said very well at all.
Several of us tried to & were more than willing to walk him through the process step by step. Making the tooling to do the job would have been fun. Unfortunately he showed who he was very quickly.
People have real legitimate concern about poor quality climbing pro. I guess because of my age I'm use to one offs or small runs in climbing gear. I don't have enough fingers & toes to count how many bolts I've pull out by hand on lead. I can't count how many stove legs or other pieces of home made metal hangers I've clipped into. 

Nope. His is likely stronger than Jims (hole cleanliness and adhesive being equal). Lets ask Jim. What say Jim? BTW, for 50 years 1/4" x 1-1/4 split shank construction anchors were what was used 90 percent of the time. Failures, even as shitty and as small as they were, were super rare. In comparison, Ma Jas stuff is radically overkill. Radical. They'll likely hold a truck. If Jim says otherwise, I'll defer to his knowledge.

BTW Tricam, a hand drilled 25mm (ie <1") staple in the Alps is not a comparison. Lets compare my bicycle to your Lamborghini. That's likely a closer comparison. Not same-same. Ma Jas stuff I'd expect to be significantly stronger than the commercial Fixe (and I love Fixe, not a diss) glue ins. If the adhesive sticks (so not out of date glue, clean but rough hole correctly sized) Ma Ja's shit+ bomber. Have you looked at the stats on that stuff? OVERKILL (better than underkill like everyone climbed on for the previous 50 years because they had to hand drill)

This whole debacle is a great reminder to never implicitly trust bolts, especially in areas less-than-frequently visited.

What's more, it's a good reminder that growing one's knowledge of 'materials science' is a good way to increase one’s capacity for making safe choices in the moment - provided that education moves beyond the Dunning-Kruger peak.

And, of course, MP-appreciation tax paying: thankful this website makes it easier to publicly announce discovered hardware has or is likely to have safety issues. Looking forward to the day when the route condition reports are stored in a publicly visible, well structured log that is frequently used -- I know this was available for a bit, not sure if it's still out there somewhere, or has been reasonably deprecated (for now?).

Can we get back to sharing textbook photos? Got me droolin'....

I've lost my copy of Statistics for Engineers, and I miss it terribly.

Billcoe wrote: Nope. His is likely stronger than Jims (hole cleanliness and adhesive being equal). Lets ask Jim. What say Jim? BTW, for 50 years 1/4" x 1-1/4 split shank construction anchors were what was used 90 percent of the time. Failures, even as shitty and as small as they were, were super rare. In comparison, Ma Jas stuff is radically overkill. Radical. They'll likely hold a truck. If Jim says otherwise, I'll defer to his knowledge.

BTW Tricam, a hand drilled 25mm (ie <1") staple in the Alps is not a comparison. Lets compare my bicycle to your Lamborghini. That's likely a closer comparison. Not same-same. Ma Jas stuff I'd expect to be significantly stronger than the commercial Fixe (and I love Fixe, not a diss) glue ins. If the adhesive sticks (so not out of date glue, clean but rough hole correctly sized) Ma Ja's shit+ bomber. Have you looked at the stats on that stuff? OVERKILL (better than underkill like everyone climbed on for the previous 50 years because they had to hand drill)

How on earth would I know? He hasn't even made one yet.

Ma Ja wrote:Now I know that this is not the place to post and share my experiences, in an attempt to help other people with less experience.

In other words you wanted to share potentially dangerous information, on a subject you have no experience with, to people of even lesser experience, in order to encourage them to make and install their own homemade gear, meanwhile ignoring the folks in the thread who have decades of experience. 

Successful people build on the knowledge and experience of others, they don't try to replicate or reinvent the wheel from scratch with little knowledge in the field. 

Ben Franklin some of you may have heard of this guy. He was a great inventor & thinker, he never patented anything saying that everything he did was on the shoulder of those before him. He also did not bargain with people over the price of his products. If you walked into his shop to buy a Franklin stove & started to bargain with him he would not sell you a stove at any price, he would give you the card of the guy down the street that made a less expensive Franklin stove, or he would print you out a blueprint to make you own.