Drilled Pins in non climbing area in Moab

Hey everyone. On a trip a couple months ago, I was scrambling (okay you caught me, soloing) around the bluffs around kings bottom campground outside of Moab., and I ran into these drilled pin anchors in very poor quality sandstone.

I am wondering if any locals know what they were used for , and if anyone knows how trustworthy these would be if I encountered them climbing! (Although I hope I am never on such crumbly rock a

drilled pins are bomber. Maybe Canyoneering?

CE stamp... they’re not even all that old.
Drilled pins are used for anchors. If they don’t wiggle they’re probably okay. If they do, well, pull down not out. 

From what I’ve read drilled pins when placed correctly can be as bomber as bolts, and in the desert they won’t rust as quickly so last a long time too.

Thanks for the feedback! Still bomber if the rock was soft enough to break by hand?

Slackline anchor? Or rope swing?  

Go check out the quality of rock at the Fisher Towers...

Ethan Turan wrote: Thanks for the feedback! Still bomber if the rock was soft enough to break by hand?

Why were you soloing on rock soft enough to break by hand?

It was a joke, even leading on gear on that rock would be terrifying.

Rob Dillon wrote:  If they do, well, pull down not out. 

Yeah, any kind of pulling out in regards to protection is not reliable.

Ethan, "drilled angles" used to be one of the standard "bolts" for Moab-area towers. To the best of my knowledge, this technology was introduced by Harvey Carter, first on the soft sandstone of Garden of the Gods in CO Springs, then in the desert. His were typically the old, soft-iron army ring angles. I placed many drilled angles on tower routes in the 1980s. The 1/2 "baby angles" were standard, then we'd carry a few 5/8 in case the rock was a bit soft and the baby was going in a bit too easy for some reason. We'd also carry some much longer 3/4" angles, usually some Euro soft-iron things, for the really soft stone like tower summits. Placing drilled angles well was an art form, usually done with a 3/8" hand drill, maybe a 1/2" in addition, then sculpting with the pitons themselves. You had to get the angle right (NOT perpendicular to the rock), and gauge the hole and the rock hardness just right, cuz you only got one chance to drive them home. They get a bad rap these days because they have no real direct pullout strength, but people still think they should work like regular bolts. BITD, everybody knew the score and treated them accordingly, like you'd treat a bomber #8 stopper. PS - The angles you found look good!

Big time input, Jeff!

Jeff, thank you so much for the info! Softer sandstone rock seems to be a whole nother world, and I really appreciate your feedback!

Jeff is right. Placing them is an art form.

After a few hundred I started to get a good "feel" in my drill hand for just how hard or soft that particular spot (because there are often inconsistencies on the same wall).
Then I would adjust the amount I used the 1/2" drill accordingly.

At some point a guy named McFee published instructions to ream a 3/8" hole with a 1/2" drill. That DOES NOT WORK McFEE! The bit will bind. You should have listened to me better!

Anyway, I start with the wider bit. Then finish with the thinner. Often shaping the hole with the piton can take longer than the drilling, and is needed to make a good anchor. Often I rotate the pin a third of a turn repeatedly.

I prime and triple paint my baby angles so they won't rust, but the most important thing is to use epoxy and the drill dust to make a mortar that seals up the hole.

Anybody check out the drilled angles with the camo paint jobs on Sheer Lunacy? Those suckers are gonna last.
When the Park Service asked 2 climbers to remove From Hell To Breakfast they couldn't even remove my first drilled angle with a crowbar.