Please stay home!

Marc801 C wrote: So where are you now since J-Tree has closed?

The town of Joshua Tree closed?

FrankPS wrote:

The town of Joshua Tree closed?

I thought he meant the park.

Sean Brady wrote: I suspect the little town mentioned previously is acting a lot like an unnamed desert community I'm in here in UT - like it's an outsider's problem. They're telling everyone to go away while they carry on life as usual. No one is wearing masks, in fact some people are making fun of them. People are still standing around talking to each other close like normal, passing around beers and hanging out. They freak out on an out-of-state plate though.

I get it, you live in a tourist town and you get sick of the tourists wanting to get in on all the amazing access you have. This seems like a great excuse to kick them all out and enjoy the place to yourself. 

Well, it's not that simple, and we certainly won't be forgetting it any time soon. There will come a day when you're asking for those tourist dollars again, and some of us won't be as eager to give them to you. I'm already there, I've stopped doing carryout at the local spots thanks to the attitude I've been getting.

I guarantee though these same people will be happy to be taken to Grand Junction for lifesaving medical care, and still expect truckers make the hour-plus haul multiple times daily, as they've burning more gas then ever in their ATVs.  

It seems you have a bias towards locals.

Josh Lipko wrote: What’s not to understand? They don’t want you there.

It’s not a matter of “are you allowed to be there?” its “do the people who live there want you to be there?” If they don’t, then it doesn’t matter what their reasoning is. It’s time for you to go.

 "There will come a day when you're asking for those tourist dollars again, and some of us won't be as eager to give them to you."

 what he doesn't get is that they didn't need his business to begin with, no tourist town does. Leave the attitude where you came from.

Climber narcissism - "we are doing it to support the economy"
Locals - "please stay away"
Climber narcissism - "we are doing it because this is everyone's land"
Locals- "please if you must come quarantine for 2 weeks"
Climber narcissism - "im not sick and you cant stop me. Where can i buy a burrito?"

It just goes on and on...

Moab was fine before climbers and it will be fine after climbers.

Like I said Moab will be fine one way or the other.
By the way your numbers are not accurate. 

It was a nice little town when I was a kid in the 1960's.  

Not Hobo Greg wrote:

You can’t just say “it’ll be fine one way or the other” when presented with math that proves you wrong (who are you, the president?) They were taken directly from Grand County’s page. grandcountyutah.net/Documen…

ITS THE MATH!!!! THEY NEED CLIMBERS RIGHT NOW!!! MATH!!!

Meanwhile thousands of people dying daily, half the country unemployed, food lines growing like we have never seen in our lives BUT they need me!!!

Josh Lipko wrote: What’s not to understand? They don’t want you there.

It’s not a matter of “are you allowed to be there?” its “do the people who live there want you to be there?” If they don’t, then it doesn’t matter what their reasoning is. It’s time for you to go.

I’m not going to Moab in the name of social distancing, even though I typically spend a lot of time there in the spring... but that’s some insane logic. If the locals don’t want democrats or homosexuals, tough shit. Doesn’t matter their reasoning. They don’t want you. 

M Mobes wrote:

ITS THE MATH!!!! THEY NEED CLIMBERS RIGHT NOW!!! MATH!!!

Meanwhile thousands of people dying daily, half the country unemployed, food lines growing like we have never seen in our lives BUT they need me!!!

M Mobes - I don't disagree that the SARS2-COVID19 is having an impact on the elderly and those with underlying health issues. I do observe that this whole lockdown has been done in less than scientific methods and the result has been catastrophic to working families.  

Your comment is in line with MSM hyped gas lighting and we should make all efforts to understand why the entire country is shutdown based on relevant data showing that somewhere in the 65 age and older population is the most at risk. We could have done much better at more specific community based segregation efforts of the elderly and sick without shutting down the economy.

I am also not a big fan of totalitarian orders from the Government telling what I can and can't do. We all have personal risk. Its called freedom. This reaction is opening up massive overreach for the government that just like any government program they never go away.  Reference the Patriot Act and FISA Courts.

I am sure you can find countering arguments which is great because as long as we are critically thinking and educating ourselves - question everything, we can make the best decisions.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/09/its-difficult-to-grasp-the-projected-deaths-from-covid-19-heres-how-they-compare-to-other-causes-of-death/comment-page-13/#comments

https://www.straight.com/covid-19-pandemic/stanford-university-researcher-john-ioannidis-relies-on-data-to-puncture-some-of-myths-about

Yes I can imagine a lot of small town Utah feels just like you do. I can also imagine not too many small town Utah people have friends working in hospitals in or near hotspots. Really the biggest fear right now is people that think their personal right to go buy a Mt Dew outweighs the greater good of a world pandemic. When NY numbers start going down there will be a next wave of people dying in other parts of the country because they were too stubborn and too stupid to listen. 

M Mobes wrote: Yes I can imagine a lot of small town Utah feels just like you do. I can also imagine not too many small town Utah people have friends working in hospitals in or near hotspots. Really the biggest fear right now is people that think their personal right to go buy a Mt Dew outweighs the greater good of a world pandemic. When NY numbers start going down there will be a next wave of people dying in other parts of the country because they were too stubborn and too stupid to listen. 

I don't feel in this instance that is emotional logic and it gets us into trouble. Its why people get mad about things they shouldn't 

I use critical thinking to analyze data and inputs from many sources of info and then make my own judgement about whats best for me and my family. Anyone else who would have the Minstry of COVID compliance door their thinking for them must from the big city. 

I have a friend and family (nurses) who, current friend, nurse works in ER says the hospital is abandoned and many staff are on furlough. Family member who is a retired nurse also disagrees with heavy handiness. Your reply about Mt Dew buying, stubborn, stupid, Country folk is rather offensive. Who are you? Your hyperbole doesn't match the numbers of past infections to warrant the response. 

1. Average death in NYC is over 65 years of age. They are not even tracking deaths under 20 years old. In the 30 to 40 year old range is like 20% or under. There is also no info on underlying health with those numbers either you know like....obesity or emphysema etc etc.

2. There will not be a massive outbreak in farm country because even though we know all our neighbors we like our personal space out here.

3. The causation of your NYC goes down and somewhere else goes up is not logical. Its peaking everywhere or coming down hence the adjusted numbers from 240K deaths now to possibly 60K (based on computer models) it will also go down as we enter warmer weather at least in the warmer parts of the country.

I don't mind having logical debate it makes us all smarter and informed. It creates a stronger group of critical thinkers who in my experience should question everything especially the government.

However, if you slander and use personal attacks I just won't engage it makes you mad and wastes my time.

V/R,

Dan

To further support or rebuff the point Dan H is making, consider these videos AND the sources the interviewee in each video uses to support a particular 'fact' in the discussion.

--The Rubin Report, a recent episode featuring Jeffery A Tucker from April 12 2020.  Of particular note is a paper published by Yale University and signed by 700 experts in the field of infectious disease.

--Valuetainment, featuring Danielle Dimartino Booth from April 10 2020

--PowerfulJRE #1456 with Michael Shermer form April 9 2020

--PwerfulJRE #1439 with Michael Osterholm from mrch 10 2020. This is Episode is Very thick with facts and easy to quote inaccurately. A friend, from JPL in Pasadena (a rocket scientist), and I had to listen from beginning to end a few times,  we both took a few notes to put everything Michael Osterholm says into an accurate context. Being that this from a month ago, some of the info is out of date, but it seems most of it is still correct.

Climbers have always been a bit higher on the intellect scale as group. Lets take pride in that fact!    But please,... forgive me for pulling down the average and overlooking things here and there.  

Take care,
Jake 

J Gargamel wrote
Climbers have always been a bit higher on the intellect scale as group.

Hold my beer.

Popcorn is popping 

We've been laughing at the conspiracy folks a bunch recently, their go to is always to "educate yourself" or "use critical thinking" and 99% of them live in small town USA where the virus hasn't taken off go figure!

Yeah, I could come up with a hundred thousand links from the internet to argue every point. I suggest to just pay attention to the CDC, pay attention to your doctors(ok maybe not the local Utah doctor who tells the ladies they better start having babies or their eggs will dry up and fall out- true story). Pay attention to the professionals, the ones trying to use their scientific and medical knowledge to help mankind, not the ex military guy who lives in farm country.

Personally Ive always been a Darwinist so seeing idiots doing deadly stuff has always been entertaining to me. Its not entertaining though when we would all like the country to open up again and return to normal yet we have so many non believers who keep spreading the virus therefore keeping this shutdown going. I'd really like to go have a beer at the local pub after a great day of climbing so please just listen to the professionals for a few more weeks while you research why you shouldn't (at home).

FWD to 1:27 to see the response

Lotsa posts here and on social media trying to minimize the disease. Not just “don’t tread on meh freedom!” types, but some pretty smart folks who happen to have a conservative bent. I can only imagine there’s a big right wing media push. I don’t know, I especially don’t watch that stuff, just speculating.

The revised projections seem to fuel this laxness as well. To me the trend screams “finish him!”, deliver the death punch, not to back off and give this fire oxygen. Maybe I’ve been paranoid too long, and working in healthcare where it is verboten to call things “good” before you’re damn well out of the woods, but we aren’t out of this thing by a good bit of road. Stay strong!

Colonel Mustard wrote: Lotsa posts here and on social media trying to minimize the disease. Not just “don’t tread on meh freedom!” types, but some pretty smart folks who happen to have a conservative bent. I can only imagine there’s a big right wing media push. I don’t know, I especially don’t watch that stuff, just speculating.

The revised projections seem to fuel this laxness as well. To me the trend screams “finish him!”, deliver the death punch, not to back off and give this fire oxygen. Maybe I’ve been paranoid too long, and working in healthcare where it is verboten to call things “good” before you’re damn well out of the woods, but we aren’t out of this thing by a good bit of road. Stay strong!

Dont forget its still election time so both sides are manipulating at an insane pace. Even Trump is stuck in the middle here, you know he wanted to sell some easter brunches at the Trump hotels a couple days back. Even the orange haired moron is listening.

And yeah, I live in a less populated state than Utah with even more farms. We would have almost zero deaths if it wasn't for people that came up here to hide from it(spread it).

Colonel Mustard wrote: Lotsa posts here and on social media trying to minimize the disease. Not just “don’t tread on meh freedom!” types, but some pretty smart folks who happen to have a conservative bent. I can only imagine there’s a big right wing media push. I don’t know, I especially don’t watch that stuff, just speculating.

You're correct that there is a push on right-wing media. It's worth watching it or reading it occasionally to know what they're saying. Much of it is astonishing; their audiences truly do live in an alternate reality, and it's why we can't have good-faith differences over facts anymore: they reject anything coming from the sources they're told not to believe.