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Home Wall - Kicker or No Kicker?

Original Post
Darin Berdinka · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2009 · Points: 267

Pile of wood in the garage, holds on the way.   Building a 30 degree spray wall (not systems) in a room with a 9' 9" ceiling.   Last unknown.... Do I build in a kicker panel at the base or not?  Due to wall construction It would either have to be 3" tall (which basically isn't anything) or 10" tall (which cuts into available height for main wall).     I'm leaning to excluding it and having a single surface.   Any deep thoughts from the very online climbers?  Thanks.

KyleMFSpurgeon · · Syracuse, NY · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 26
Kicker. Hands down.

30 is right on the verge of when I'd call it necessary, but yes, I'd highly advise a kicker, and 3" is not enough. At 30, you'll probably be fine without, if you go that way though. Get some big feet for the bottom row.
Kyle L · · North Bend, WA · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 181

I'd recommend doing kicker if you can make it work. We have a tension board at our place but due to space constraints we could only put a 5" kicker. at 5" it is big enough such that it doesn't eliminate a tonne of the problems, but there are still a handful of problems that are impossible (for me anyways) to start as the space is just too tight.

Ned Plimpton · · Salt Lake City · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 116

Kicker.  Personally I say get some crappy/slopey feet (like those on a Moonboard) so that just pulling on can be a hard move.  IMHO, the whole point of woody training is to squeeze as many hard moves in as possible, which will probably be about 5 legit moves on most boards.  Also, having the lowest footholds a few inches above the floor versus right above the floor makes things harder, which again I think is the point.  I put juggier holds on the periphery for warming up/circuits but leave the main area for the biz.

I don't understand why you say the kicker is limited to either 3" or 10"?  You should be able to pick any height you like and block in behind it.

AndyMac · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 1,123

I never understood what the point of a kicker was. Just to make the starts easier? If you only have a small space, why limit how difficult you can make climbs and reduce the area of your wall. I was always happy my wall didn't have one.

Mike Lofgren · · Reading, MA · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 90

Was having the same consideration. Thanks for the advice.

Darin, how did you generate your design? Any resources you can recommend? PM me or reply here, if you please

Peter Beal · · Boulder Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,825

No kicker. This question just keeps on popping up. You can install a range of footholds near the base of a steep wall adjusting the potential difficulty as needed and preserving maximum wall length which is a big deal for smaller home walls.

Will O · · Marquette, MI · Joined Oct 2016 · Points: 9,899
AndyMac wrote: I never understood what the point of a kicker was. Just to make the starts easier? If you only have a small space, why limit how difficult you can make climbs and reduce the area of your wall. I was always happy my wall didn't have one.

At steeper angles like 40+ degrees a kicker will make climbs less dabby. This becomes really obvious when you pass 50 degrees. 

Technically yes, kickers do make starts easier. But they also allow for lower starts and thus give you more climbable surface on your board.

AndyMac · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 1,123

Will O, thanks for offering some reasons to have a kicker instead of just a yes or no answer. I can see the advantages of having the base of the wall raised up (steeper angle, more clearance, harder to pull on). I just don't know if I could get over having footholds on a vertical surface (maybe add the heighth w/o the footholds?). I also wonder how that extra height transfers the weight of the wall into the floor vs the  back wall.
I used to have a 45° wall without a kicker and dabs were rarely an issue (just foot pops and ~12" of wall were unusable). I also made a point to use some really terrible footholds so moves required a lot of tension and finger strength was king. I miss having that wall but I loved almost everything about it. Doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.
Thanks for the insight!

Darin Berdinka · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2009 · Points: 267

Decided to go no kicker.  If I change my mind it will be much easier to add one to the base of the wall than remove one!

Seth Bleazard · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2018 · Points: 395

Add a kicker.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252

Bumping this because I’m considering adding a kicker to my 45.  What height would you guys recommend?  Overall wall height is obviously fixed since I’ll be attaching to a prexisting wall (which is already as high as it can be), so ideally I would be looking for the minimum useful kicker height.  Also - attachment to the wall would be a bit more complex.  I was thinking I’d need to bevel it at 45 to lay flat.  Do you think screwing into the existing ply + something to secure it to the floor would be enough?  I was thinking of just a 2x6, screwed into the floor behind where the kicker will go so that I can go through the kicker ply.  Finally - any point in T-nuts, or should this be strictly screw-ons?

Peter Beal · · Boulder Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,825

Why make things more difficult for yourself? Put some better footholds on down low. Spend the time you would have used thrashing with lumber and tools and hardware climbing instead.

Zacks · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 65

I built  a home wall and started using it before I had installed the plywood for the kicker.  It is better with the kicker (my wall is 33deg cause that's where the beam was)

For a kicker you need room for a foot hold your toe on top of the hold and room to drop your heal, so that's about 5-6in.  I bet a 2x6 would work great...

John Byrnes · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 392
Ted Pinson wrote: Bumping this because I’m considering adding a kicker to my 45.  What height would you guys recommend?  Overall wall height is obviously fixed since I’ll be attaching to a prexisting wall (which is already as high as it can be), so ideally I would be looking for the minimum useful kicker height.  Also - attachment to the wall would be a bit more complex.  I was thinking I’d need to bevel it at 45 to lay flat.  Do you think screwing into the existing ply + something to secure it to the floor would be enough?  I was thinking of just a 2x6, screwed into the floor behind where the kicker will go so that I can go through the kicker ply.  Finally - any point in T-nuts, or should this be strictly screw-ons?

I would recommend a 12" kicker, with t-nuts; that's what I have on my 43 degree wall.   It gives you enough room to do some foot moves low-down, and actually step up some for move 2 or 3.  

You don't need a lot of T-nuts, just enough to bolt on some footers that aren't drilled for screws.  I also screw on scrap oak molding and trim, fwiw.  

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252
Peter Beal wrote: Why make things more difficult for yourself? Put some better footholds on down low. Spend the time you would have used thrashing with lumber and tools and hardware climbing instead.

That’s what I’ve done so far.  I’ve gone back and forth on it but the arguments for kickers seem to be stronger.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

Kicker is easier to add later, think kicker volumes. 

Dan Schmidt · · Eugene, OR · Joined Feb 2016 · Points: 349
AndyMac wrote: I never understood what the point of a kicker was. Just to make the starts easier? If you only have a small space, why limit how difficult you can make climbs and reduce the area of your wall. I was always happy my wall didn't have one.

It buys you a bit of space at the bottom of the board, where without one your heels would strike the ground. And FWIW, so long as the kicker isn't too tall you can always start with feet on the steep wall, anyway.

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330

I was short on space, so I went with a 6” kicker, just enough for a row of t-nuts on the kicker. I am really glad I did, as it’s already cramped at the bottom. The steeper the wall the nicer the kicker. If the wall is lower angle, maybe not as important.

Nick Andrasik · · Broomfield, CO · Joined Jul 2016 · Points: 0

Built a 30* wall over the lockdown and went no kicker. If it was any steeper, I would've gone with a kicker.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252
M Mobley wrote: Kicker is easier to add later, think kicker volumes. 

That’s basically what I did.  Just beveled the top at 45 and screwed straight into the existing plywood.  Totally worth it, would definitely recommend for steeper walls.


Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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