Mountain Project Logo

Cam size on supertopo

Original Post
Olivier C · · Grenoble, FR · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0

Hello there!
Dreaming about routes and checking topos I'm in trouble with the rack advised on supertopo classics big wall routes in Yosemite.

They give "reference size" and not directly the number of the cam.

For ex "zodiac" :
- 2ea 0.3''- 3.5''
for me that means two exemplaires of each size between number 000 (grey C3, BD) to number 4 (grey C4 ,DB)

- 4ea 4''- 4.5''
For me that means four number 4 and four number 5.

So in total we have to bring SIX number 4 ???

I find other strange things in others routes on the book (yosemite big wall, third ed.), and I would like to know where I can find simple beta easy to read ( number of the cam and not reference size for the crack it will fit).
Because it cause me to convert inch to cm and measure my cams...and doubt...and post this....

MacksWhineturd · · Squaw · Joined May 2016 · Points: 0

The super topo rack suggestions for el cap routes are in inches, not BD cam sizes.  A red #1 is not 1".   You might need to find a ruler and measure your cams...   
Also - don't bring six #4's up Zodiac, the wide pitch takes cams bigger than #4's.  I think we had 1x #4, 1x old 4.5, 1x #5 and 1x old x5. I don't think we had the six.  

 

Señor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10
Olivier C. wrote: Hello there!
Dreaming about routes and checking topos I'm in trouble with the rack advised on supertopo classics big wall routes in Yosemite.

They give "reference size" and not directly the number of the cam.

For ex "zodiac" :
- 2ea 0.3''- 3.5''
for me that means two exemplaires of each size between number 000 (grey C3, BD) to number 4 (grey C4 ,DB)

- 4ea 4''- 4.5''
For me that means four number 4 and four number 5.

So in total we have to bring SIX number 4 ???

I find other strange things in others routes on the book (yosemite big wall, third ed.), and I would like to know where I can find simple beta easy to read ( number of the cam and not reference size for the crack it will fit).
Because it cause me to convert inch to cm and measure my cams...and doubt...and post this....

The reason they gave cam size in inches is because not all cams have consistent sizing. Sorry about this English sizing thing. Metric would for sure be easier. But that's just math. To be clear, 2 ea -.3 inches to 3.5 inches means bring a double rack covering the entire range from approximately .75 cm to 9 cm. 

Matt Thomsen · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 232

I have done Zodiac with only a new BD #4 & #5, as my big pieces. The only pitches you need them on is the nipple and the pitch off peanut. But, if I owned another #4 and #5 I would maybe bring them. The pitch off peanut is really run out if you don’t have a doubles. But you deficiently do not need a #6 on the climb.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,482

How ironic that you cannot discuss Supertopo topos on Supertopo. Not so souper after all?

Cosmiccragsman AKA Dwain · · Las Vegas, Nevada, and Appl… · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 116
Tim Stich wrote: How ironic that you cannot discuss Supertopo topos on Supertopo. Not so souper after all?
You can't discuss nothing on Supertopo anymore!!!!


JaredG · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 1

I'm pretty sure all the supertopo books have a reference page somewhere early in the book with cam sizes for different brands.  They probably don't have the newer cams like Totems.  Even better is https://cam-parison.com/, with which you can switch between metric and imperial.  

Even if you get the ranges right, there's still some ambiguity about how many cams you need to bring.  In your particular example, this page gives a little more detail: http://www.supertopo.com/rock-climbing/route_gear.php?r=ybelzodi   (3 #4's and 3 #5's)

Niklaus Scherpenberg · · Ghent, BE · Joined Jun 2019 · Points: 0
Señor Arroz wrote:

The reason they gave cam size in inches is because not all cams have consistent sizing. Sorry about this English sizing thing. Metric would for sure be easier. But that's just math. To be clear, 2 ea -.3 inches to 3.5 inches means bring a double rack covering the entire range from approximately .75 cm to 9 cm. 

English sizing? How about, rest-of-the-world-sizing? And also, the metric system was a French invention actually. 

revans90 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 50
Señor Arroz wrote:

The reason they gave cam size in inches is because not all cams have consistent sizing. Sorry about this English sizing thing. Metric would for sure be easier. But that's just math. To be clear, 2 ea -.3 inches to 3.5 inches means bring a double rack covering the entire range from approximately .75 cm to 9 cm. 

red x4 -#4 bd???

my friend and I always chuckled at what 3.5"(tipped out 3) or 4.5'' meant in C4 sizes ,its a tipped out #4(really tipped out) or #5 c4
Señor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10
Niklaus Scherpenberg wrote:

English sizing? How about, rest-of-the-world-sizing? And also, the metric system was a French invention actually. 

Technically it's the "Imperial system." But, yeah, the British Empire is who we have to blame or credit for a non-base-10 system based on things like a the length of an average human foot, a thumb knuckle, etc. It's definitely not "rest of the world."

Mark Frumkin · · Bishop, CA · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 56

English = British Standard = Whitworth : U.S = U.S. Standard = inches : The rest of the world Metric.

rocknice2 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 3,194
Mark Frumkin · · Bishop, CA · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 56

That's too funny, the U.S. & English imperial are not the same.
This is why the internet can be a waste of time. Look up U.S. gallon &  imperial gallon.
Look up whitworth tools. 
The U.S. is not on the imperial standard. We are on the U.S. standard.

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Mark Frumkin wrote: That's too funny, the U.S. & English imperial are not the same.
This is why the internet can be a waste of time. Look up U.S. gallon &  imperial gallon.
Look up whitworth tools.
The U.S. is not on the imperial standard. We are on the U.S. standard.

Called US Customary units, the USA had left the Empire before the Imperial system was introduced. Interestingly for surveying purposes the defined length of the inch varies depending on which state you are in, some use the US Survey inch and some the normal inch.

Señor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10
Mark Frumkin wrote: That's too funny, the U.S. & English imperial are not the same.
...
The U.S. is not on the imperial standard. We are on the U.S. standard.

The US standard was simply the ENGLISH standard but formally adopted at Independence and renamed so it was under US national control. The Imperial standard was an attempt by the Brits to make a little more sense of how things work (ie. Imperial gallon = 10 lbs of water) and was a reaction to the adoption of metric in the rest of Europe a few years prior.

For the purposes of talking about cam range, though, it's all a bunch of blather. Inches are the same in all those systems. Just do the math and convert inches to whatever you think in. 

Brad White · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2006 · Points: 25

Get ahold of Woot!guy's and Putnam's guide. It has a great section on how different cams compare in size. No ruler necessary.

Mark Frumkin · · Bishop, CA · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 56

No an inch in not an inch in all of them. There is NO inch in metric & try and find an inch wrench in whitworth.

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Señor Arroz wrote:

The US standard was simply the ENGLISH standard ....

BRITISH standard, the act of union in 1706 says so. (Pedantry alert!!!).

Señor Arroz · · LA, CA · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 10
Mark Frumkin wrote: No an inch in not an inch in all of them. There is NO inch in metric & try and find an inch wrench in whitworth.

You missed the point. Which is exactly that there is NO other inch (unlike, say gallon and Imperial gallon, or nautical mile and statute mile.) An inch is 25.4mm in metric. Whitworth is a tool sizing standard and seems pretty irrelevant to the question at hand. Is it used for anything else? 

csproul · · Davis, CA · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330

My experience with supertopo is that while intending to list gear sizes in inches, more often the actual size corresponds to the BD size. Meaning that if ST says 1” gear, what they really meant was a #1 Camelot and not 1 inch.

Olivier C · · Grenoble, FR · Joined Apr 2018 · Points: 0

Hello guys,
The problem is not inches or meters but the supertopo "reference sizes" which can be confusing and not intuitive for racking.
Till 2" you have to take smaller than ref size numbers.
Above 2", take bigger than the ref size number.
Only 2" is number 2 !

I have different brands for my cams and some I don't even know the name but I know their equivalent C4 bd number.
So for me it's way more simple to know which sizes I have to take when it's BD sizes.
From 000 C3 to number 6 C4 a lot of people understand.
The second problem comes from strange things in the rack advised ( see above for zodiac).
For leaning tower west face the rack is 1 ea 3"- 4" but pitch 10 takes two times a 4.5" ref size.
So number 5 should be very useful...

Well in fact no problem, just more checking from different sources.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Climbing Gear Discussion
Post a Reply to "Cam size on supertopo"

Log In to Reply